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RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:11:23 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:


or substance abuse






That's the best you got? Personal attacks and cartoons?

pffft!!




well there has to be an underlying cause for anyone who thinks they are captain america and stands on their soap box with duke nukem yelling "kill em all let God sort em out" because they do not know the difference between an american and a corporate political citizen dont you think?

do you think that is normal?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/7/2013 7:12:02 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:23:40 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

well there has to be an underlying cause for anyone who thinks they are captain america and stands on their soap box with duke nukem yelling "kill em all let God sort em out" because they do not know the difference between an american and a corporate political citizen dont you think?

Where did I say that? In your sovereign citizen delusion perhaps.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:40:38 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

well there has to be an underlying cause for anyone who thinks they are captain america and stands on their soap box with duke nukem yelling "kill em all let God sort em out" because they do not know the difference between an american and a corporate political citizen dont you think?

Where did I say that? In your sovereign citizen delusion perhaps.



There were people here long before the creation of landed estates.

Lets start with american indians

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the nice thing is that we know the government would never use such a thing on american soil against americans

'Patriot' militia groups who take up arms against the United States are no longer Americans. They are treasonous. They fail to heed the lessons learned by the late Confederacy. So, fuck em! They will deserve the wrath of our Defense forces.


The civil war was an imperialist move to fund another round of bonds, loans arent free of charge you know and contracts arent "lawfully proven" by greater force (american style) either.

Finally tell me how a living man can take up arms against an abstract entity? You do understand the difference right?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:56:53 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		The demise of the Tea Party (RIP) is one notable success in the struggle against hate and extremism.

It seems to be spent as a political force. It's leaders are neither seen nor heard from. When was the last time Palin or Bachmann said or did anything of significance? It's gratifying to note that all those millions the Koch Bros spent financing it have joined the Tea Party in going down the drain.....

Long may it rest in peace. It is not missed.

_____________________________



(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:58:09 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The demise of the Tea Party (RIP) is one notable success in the struggle against hate and extremism.

It seems to be spent as a political force. It's leaders are neither seen nor heard from. When was the last time Palin or Bachmann said or did anything of significance? It's gratifying to note that all those millions the Koch Bros spent financing it have joined the Tea Party in going down the drain.....

Long may it rest in peace. It is not missed.



This.

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RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:01:15 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The demise of the Tea Party (RIP) is one notable success in the struggle against hate and extremism.

It seems to be spent as a political force. It's leaders are neither seen nor heard from. When was the last time Palin or Bachmann said or did anything of significance? It's gratifying to note that all those millions the Koch Bros spent financing it have joined the Tea Party in going down the drain.....

Long may it rest in peace. It is not missed.


I cannot agree with this in whole or in part.  The Tea Party died a long time ago, what is not dying is the teabaggers, they are withering on the vine.  Bachmann only is in congress because of horrific gerrymandering in this state.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:03:35 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The demise of the Tea Party (RIP) is one notable success in the struggle against hate and extremism.

It seems to be spent as a political force. It's leaders are neither seen nor heard from. When was the last time Palin or Bachmann said or did anything of significance? It's gratifying to note that all those millions the Koch Bros spent financing it have joined the Tea Party in going down the drain.....

Long may it rest in peace. It is not missed.


No shit?



North County Tea Party gaining strength
July 30, 2012

By DANIEL BLACKBURN

There’s a big party brewing, but it’s not about dancing and cocktails — the issue at hand for members of the rapidly-growing North County Tea Party is nothing less than salvation of these United States.

With its own quarterly publication and a membership list now topping 200, the two-year-old group is gaining steam in its quest for “regaining” the nation.

“We see this as a vehicle to encourage citizens to get involved, and to inform them about the threats facing our country,” said Paso Robles resident John Texiera, publisher of the Central Coast Tea Party Times. “United we stand, divided we fall — freedom made this country great, not our government.”


quote:

The first ever Tea Party event in my area last night. A much bigger crowd than expected. Everything was very respectful and the main message was that this is still a great country, and to get out the vote.

What a bunch of backward, racist, right wing nutjobs.







Democracy rocks!






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/7/2013 8:17:05 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:34:15 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

And how is yours a cogent answer to my statement? An armed rebellion against the Nation forfeits citizenship.



I think they're just against the government, not the nation as a whole.

Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that "treason is only a matter of dates"?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:44:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

And how is yours a cogent answer to my statement? An armed rebellion against the Nation forfeits citizenship.



I think they're just against the government, not the nation as a whole.

Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that "treason is only a matter of dates"?

Is a nation not defined by its government?

To take up arms against your government, are you not also taking up arms against the nation?
Our founding fathers knew they were committing treason against England when they took up arms. What would be different about a 'patriot group' taking up arms today?

I say the same thing about the secessionists.
They are violatiing the very Pledge of Allegiance that they bemoan the fact every time is isn't recited in school



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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:56:16 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It was Talleyrand that said that, but under different circumstances and in a wholly different context.    

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 8:56:38 AM   
papassion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Well, they are correct in that we are headed for civil war.


I don't think so.
My reasoning is this. The citizens of the the US are by and large just too damn apathetic.


Anything coming close to a civil war in a country this large would probably require a million or so participants. 100,000 at arms and the rest in logistics. Anything smaller wouldn't get a chance to build momentum.


Remember a place called Auganistan? How many "miscontents" with homemade explosive devices and old AK47s did it take to kick the Russian's ass and are now giving the worlds most powerful army fits?

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 9:07:21 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Well, they are correct in that we are headed for civil war.


I don't think so.
My reasoning is this. The citizens of the the US are by and large just too damn apathetic.


Anything coming close to a civil war in a country this large would probably require a million or so participants. 100,000 at arms and the rest in logistics. Anything smaller wouldn't get a chance to build momentum.


Remember a place called Auganistan? How many "miscontents" with homemade explosive devices and old AK47s did it take to kick the Russian's ass and are now giving the worlds most powerful army fits?

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

You missed a very important word in my post. "Apathetic"

Americans are too comfortable.

The situation in Afghanistan is different in 2 important ways.

1. The fighters there believe that their duty is to die for their faith and in doing so, they are guaranteed a spot in heaven.

2. The standard of living is so different that there is less apathy. There are so few modern comforts that activism becomes more likely.
Revolution is much less likely on a full belly.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 9:20:29 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The civil war was an imperialist move to fund another round of bonds, loans arent free of charge you know and contracts arent "lawfully proven" by greater force (american style) either.

Oh, posh!

quote:

Finally tell me how a living man can take up arms against an abstract entity? You do understand the difference right?

Ask your compatriot Terry Nichols. Take care you don't get a room next to his.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 9:26:03 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The situation in Afghanistan is different in 2 important ways.

1. The fighters there believe that their duty is to die for their faith and in doing so, they are guaranteed a spot in heaven.

2. The standard of living is so different that there is less apathy. There are so few modern comforts that activism becomes more likely.
Revolution is much less likely on a full belly.

Afghanistan is not a modern nation. It is a tribal homeland. Big difference.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 9:28:45 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

Ya think the military will just give up? Is that what you think? You and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Delusional

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 9:44:24 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The situation in Afghanistan is different in 2 important ways.

1. The fighters there believe that their duty is to die for their faith and in doing so, they are guaranteed a spot in heaven.

2. The standard of living is so different that there is less apathy. There are so few modern comforts that activism becomes more likely.
Revolution is much less likely on a full belly.

Afghanistan is not a modern nation. It is a tribal homeland. Big difference.

Isn't that what I just basically said?

The situation is so different that it would be utter folly to make predictions of occurences in one based on the other.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 10:14:00 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
To take up arms against your government, are you not also taking up arms against the nation?
Our founding fathers knew they were committing treason against England when they took up arms. What would be different about a 'patriot group' taking up arms today?

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 10:35:02 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

because it has blatantly violated the constitution


How

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 10:37:42 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

And how is yours a cogent answer to my statement? An armed rebellion against the Nation forfeits citizenship.



I think they're just against the government, not the nation as a whole.

Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that "treason is only a matter of dates"?

Is a nation not defined by its government?


Ideally, that would be the case, but in practice, not always.

quote:


To take up arms against your government, are you not also taking up arms against the nation?


It would depend on whether you define "the nation" as being just the government (or just a single political party/faction) - or the people as a whole.

quote:


Our founding fathers knew they were committing treason against England when they took up arms. What would be different about a 'patriot group' taking up arms today?


Sure, they knew the risks they were taking and the consequences of getting caught, but the founding fathers also considered that America was a separate nation by that point. So, they weren't taking up arms against their "nation," since their nation was no longer England.

"Nation" can be defined and interpreted in different ways. I've heard some Europeans tell me that America is not really a nation at all, not like European nations are. I don't agree with that view, but I suppose it depends on how one perceives and defines the concept.

My only point was that armed rebellion against the government is just that - armed rebellion against the government. It's not against "the nation," since that would imply the people as a whole. Other than that, these aforementioned groups may be criminals, terrorists, insurrectionists (if/when they ever do anything), but I don't think their nationality would suddenly change, even under those circumstances. They'd still be Americans.


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 10:56:55 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

My only point was that armed rebellion against the government is just that - armed rebellion against the government. It's not against "the nation," since that would imply the people as a whole. Other than that, these aforementioned groups may be criminals, terrorists, insurrectionists (if/when they ever do anything), but I don't think their nationality would suddenly change, even under those circumstances. They'd still be Americans.

I'll go with Mr Lincoln's definition rather than your specious parsing of the words:

"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom— and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

We have a REPRESENTATIVE government. The government is us. Like it or not.

If people are unhappy with the Nation's government there are peaceful remedies at hand. We call it the Vote.



< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/7/2013 11:11:04 AM >

(in reply to Zonie63)
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