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RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 10:59:45 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 11:46:05 AM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

Ya think the military will just give up? Is that what you think? You and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Delusional


You have a dilusional view of what the military can do. This thread is about hate and extremism groups. If the military could stop it, why hasen't it? Are U saying hate and extreemism groups have all been stamped out by the military?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 11:46:34 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

My only point was that armed rebellion against the government is just that - armed rebellion against the government. It's not against "the nation," since that would imply the people as a whole. Other than that, these aforementioned groups may be criminals, terrorists, insurrectionists (if/when they ever do anything), but I don't think their nationality would suddenly change, even under those circumstances. They'd still be Americans.

I'll go with Mr Lincoln's definition rather than your specious parsing of the words:

"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom— and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

We have a REPRESENTATIVE government. The government is us. Like it or not.


"Specious parsing of the words." Hmmm...

quote:


If people are unhappy with the Nation's government there are peaceful remedies at hand. We call it the Vote.



Yes, just as there are peaceful remedies if people are unhappy with people who are unhappy with the government.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 11:53:20 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.


You don't think it's possible for government officials to violate their oath to the Constitution and betray the public trust? Do you think the government is above the law?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 1:50:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.


Its not treason when the gub is naughty,

Its breach of trust and breach of fiduciary liability.

Voids the contract and trust




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:12:54 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.


You don't think it's possible for government officials to violate their oath to the Constitution and betray the public trust? Do you think the government is above the law?

Your position is shifting a bit. First you said: the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the Constitution

Now you wonder if government officials can't violate their oath and betray the public trust.

Neither meets the definition of Treason as established in Article Three of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Seems to me there is a distinction between Treason and disatisfaction with government policies, wouldn't you say?

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:22:35 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

Ya think the military will just give up? Is that what you think? You and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Delusional


You have a dilusional view of what the military can do. This thread is about hate and extremism groups. If the military could stop it, why hasen't it? Are U saying hate and extreemism groups have all been stamped out by the military?

Whoa . . .step back a minute. Neither the military, the FBI, nor local law enforcement can abridge the right of peaceful assembly to redress grievances.

When you said "Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US." you took a giant leap from peaceful assembly to insurrection. You went from talk to action. We have yet to have the much ballyhoo'd insurrection [since 1861] If it occurs the military and law enforcement may act . . but not before. That's why the military hasn't stopped it. It hasn't begun.


(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:25:09 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

What is our government doing to restore the trust of its people?

Well for one thing, it's purchasing 2,700 Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles for the Department of Homeland Security.



K.



To bad you dont actually go to the source of the story to find the truth.

Department of Homeland security had less than fifty of these vehicles formerly in the possession of the military turned over for their special response teams which are a part of ICE.

The contract in question is FOR RELEASE AT 5 p.m. ET No. 015-12 January 09, 2012

Infowars, prisonplanet et. al are not your goto sources for the truth.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:28:43 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

To bad you dont actually go to the source of the story to find the truth.

Department of Homeland security had less than fifty of these vehicles formerly in the possession of the military turned over for their special response teams which are a part of ICE.

The contract in question is FOR RELEASE AT 5 p.m. ET No. 015-12 January 09, 2012

Infowars, prisonplanet et. al are not your goto sources for the truth.

Jlf, the truth has taken a beating in this thread. Unsurprisingly of course.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:41:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Whoa . . .step back a minute. Neither the military, the FBI, nor local law enforcement can abridge the right of peaceful assembly to redress grievances.




thats what we have courts for

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:47:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The civil war was an imperialist move to fund another round of bonds, loans arent free of charge you know and contracts arent "lawfully proven" by greater force (american style) either.

Oh, posh!

quote:

Finally tell me how a living man can take up arms against an abstract entity? You do understand the difference right?

Ask your compatriot Terry Nichols. Take care you don't get a room next to his.


ok suffice to say you dont know the answer, thank you very much

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 2:54:44 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

And how is yours a cogent answer to my statement? An armed rebellion against the Nation forfeits citizenship.



I think they're just against the government, not the nation as a whole.

Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that "treason is only a matter of dates"?

Is a nation not defined by its government?

To take up arms against your government, are you not also taking up arms against the nation?
Our founding fathers knew they were committing treason against England when they took up arms. What would be different about a 'patriot group' taking up arms today?

I say the same thing about the secessionists.
They are violatiing the very Pledge of Allegiance that they bemoan the fact every time is isn't recited in school





do you even have a clue what that pledge means? LOL

Where it came from? and what the fuck is it doing here, Oh wait we are a colony I forgot! Sheesh.

Thats pretty cool that the states cannot divorce one another but no one gives a shit if people divorce each other. whats up with that?

There is no redress for grievances, hence the government breached every fucking element of the trust and contract there is to breach, and you think thats just okay dokay and fine and jimmy damn dandy but if someone pisses in your cheerios gawd help the world.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 3:11:24 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 3:20:18 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.



CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 5:28:32 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.



CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill





You did notice that the actual logo on the video was the onion logo followed by span, didnt you?

Hate to disrupt your paranoid delusion, but it was a fake video. It was put out by the Onion back in 2008.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 6:38:50 PM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline 		If anyone thinks they can take on the military or police they are a fool. Plain and simple. Attacking the military or force able wing of the government is suicide. Instead a wiser choice would be to target the icons of liberalism and pogressivism, like NYC, Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., Los Angeles, Hollywood, and soon Denver. Avoid politicians but for a few exceptions, and target the populace. Create a climate of fear and a break down of social, financial, medical, and public services with focused acts of carnage. Don't play whackamole, especially as the mole, you only have to get hit once. I mean I can say the rest but I'd just be repeating myself again and again and again, I'll just wait till my novel is released to Amazon and then you can buy it.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 6:48:39 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne




CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill





A few more points about this video that have put some people in a tizzy.

1) Congressmen do not read bills, that is a task for the congressional clerk.

2) There has never been a rep Haller from Pennsylvania.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 6:58:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.



CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill





Pst....

http://www.geekosystem.com/john-haller-onion-video-fake-news/



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:01:40 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I shouldn't, but I really do get a kick out of ripping a conspiracy theory to hell by proving the video used to justify the theory was faked. Kind of proves that the people that make money by putting this garbage on the internet will stop at nothing to prey on the paranoid.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Year in Hate and Extremism - 3/7/2013 7:34:34 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.


You don't think it's possible for government officials to violate their oath to the Constitution and betray the public trust? Do you think the government is above the law?


Your position is shifting a bit. First you said: the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the Constitution


I don't recall saying that. Please show me where I said that.

quote:


Now you wonder if government officials can't violate their oath and betray the public trust.

Neither meets the definition of Treason as established in Article Three of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Seems to me there is a distinction between Treason and disatisfaction with government policies, wouldn't you say?


Yes, there is, which would negate the argument you used in post #35 of this thread. Treason is defined as levying war against the United States. It doesn't say anything in there about the government, now does it?

So, if the government makes war on its own people, then they are committing treason against the United States, wouldn't you say?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 80
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