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Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate if any? - 3/6/2013 3:58:28 PM   
fallsdeep404


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/2/2013
Status: offline 		Hello,
First of all, I want to apologize for asking another question so soon after the first.

I am 28, male, and a sub, possibly a switch, but mostly sub. Topping from the bottom is something I have been worried about for a long time. I've known two older Dommes in the past when I was younger, who were into mind games and were neglectful at times. I chatted with both online for a long time and got emotionally involved, but never got to meet them in real life. They ran hot and cold and would ignore me as punishment at times, which really made me feel bad. It was draining and I'm glad I never met them in person.

My question is, how do Dommes feel about topping from the bottom? Is it like a mortal sin (former Catholic boy here, lol) of BDSM?
I don't really see it as a bad thing per se. I mean wouldn't argue against the Domme using a harsher implement on me because I like things on the hard side, but I like certain outfits and scenes.

I've known three real life (offline) vanilla girlfriends over the years who obliged my fantasies, and wore what I liked (like stockings and heels), and spanked me. But they were not "into it" as kinky women would be, and didn't hit hard enough. It would have been a million times more erotic if they got off on dominating me. So I'm kind of used to explaining myself, dictating the scene, and what my fantasies are. I have really specific things that turn me on, women who are highly sexual, who can scare the crap out of me but who can be nurturing too, who dress sexy with pantyhose, stockings, skirts, high heels, leather, etc...

I guess this question stems from my insecurities as being labeled a "fraud," or not a real sub or bottom. That is sort of why I haven't been to clubs yet. My version if BDSM is a 50/50 two-way street (which others might not agree with, and that's ok with me). But I know in my heart that I have strong sub tendencies. And I truly want to be caught up in the moment and not stop a scene to give directions. Also, I want to encounter sub-space.

Thank you for reading and any answers you give!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 4:40:48 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ok getting things out of the way...you're a fraud & failure & not a weel twue sub. Feel better now?
Ok now the crap in your head is done, topping from the bottom is a huge no-no. Telling YOUR DOMME YOU KNOW IN REAL LIFE, that you like stockings, heels & having you butt hole tickled with a feather is ok. The catch is "I really like when you___" is a suggestion. "You're not doing it right, it has to be an ostrich feather on my balls & pelecan feather in my ass & where did you get those ugly shoes" is topping from the bottom. Seeing the difference?
Google BDSM checklist & fill one out. At some point AFTER meeting face to face, this should be discussed. This isn't a kinky to-do list!! Not every person likes every thing & most dommes prioritize what they can't live without in different ways.
Meet a Domme as a real person!! I want to talk more about hobbies, interests & who someone is on a first meet, not spend an hour on the things they can get up their own ass.
50/50 isn't quite the way dominance rolls. Many couples have "set roles" as in he takes out the trash (as a dominant), she cooks (as a dominant), but he cleans (as a sub) those roles or tasks don't make anyone less dominant or more sub, its what the dominant wants done. While there is some latitude for suggestion, "I'll mow the lawn if you give me x kink" is topping from the bottom & likely to get one kicked out the door.


< Message edited by theRose4U -- 3/6/2013 4:45:21 PM >

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 5:19:47 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.


_____________________________

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 5:35:10 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.


Everything you just said....

...in a nutshell.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 7:28:45 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.



Ditto this.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 8:04:06 PM   
MissToYouRedux


Posts: 867
Joined: 1/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.



And for me, that's not an invitation for "begging" either.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/6/2013 9:28:15 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.


This. ^^^^ ALL of it.

NBMG


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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/7/2013 11:47:46 AM   
SomethingCatchy


Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		To me, topping from the bottom means manipulation, nagging, harassing, and general irritating behavior. It's very clear to me when someone's doing it, and it's easy enough to say STOP or kick them out and never talk to them again.



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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/7/2013 5:03:30 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5170
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

To me, topping from the bottom means manipulation, nagging, harassing, and general irritating behavior. It's very clear to me when someone's doing it, and it's easy enough to say STOP or kick them out and never talk to them again.




To me. topping from the bottom means exactly that.  The person on the bottom (the person having something done to them) directs the top (the person doing the action).  It has nothing to do with being a dominant or a submissive.  There is nothing in the words topping from the bottom that means the bottom is also a submissive.  The bottom, depending on what is being done, just might be a dominant. 


_____________________________

We are stardust, we are golden, and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

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Revise that number. Just got 14 new chicks and 5 turkeys.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/7/2013 8:19:43 PM   
SomethingCatchy


Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		If a bottom wants to tell the top what to do and it's been agreed upon, whatever. I don't care. Not my thing. If I need guidance during a scene I shouldn't be doing it. I'll find a mentor/teacher/guinea pig instead.

_____________________________

I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns

Everyone is gay for Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/7/2013 8:25:09 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5170
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

If a bottom wants to tell the top what to do and it's been agreed upon, whatever. I don't care. Not my thing. If I need guidance during a scene I shouldn't be doing it. I'll find a mentor/teacher/guinea pig instead.


I don't think you understood what I was saying.  What if you, the dominant are the bottom in a particular scene?  Remember....top does not mean dominant and bottom does not mean submissive.  What if the dominant was the bottom and directing the scene? 

_____________________________

We are stardust, we are golden, and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

Yes, I am crazy about feathered creatures. I have a dozen chickens, 3 ducks, 5 geese, and 2 parakeets.

Revise that number. Just got 14 new chicks and 5 turkeys.

(in reply to SomethingCatchy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/7/2013 10:29:17 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

To me, topping from the bottom means manipulation, nagging, harassing, and general irritating behavior. It's very clear to me when someone's doing it, and it's easy enough to say STOP or kick them out and never talk to them again.




To me. topping from the bottom means exactly that.  The person on the bottom (the person having something done to them) directs the top (the person doing the action).  It has nothing to do with being a dominant or a submissive.  There is nothing in the words topping from the bottom that means the bottom is also a submissive.  The bottom, depending on what is being done, just might be a dominant. 



I agree with both of these definitions, I think people use the term in different ways.

Peppermint's definition, for example, maybe the Mistress loves the sensation of hot wax, and says 'put my hands in cuffs because I find it hard not to squirm. Ok now the wax is ready, hold it at the height we discussed... a little higher... ok now just drip a little at first'. She's dictating the scene whilst being the one on the receiving end of the sensation. Or it might be two friends/play partners who have no power dynamic in place, but the person on the bottom is instructing or teaching the top - that's what you've been doing so far OP. There's nothing wrong with that at all, except that as you say, it's not as meaningful for you when you are just bottoming, you want to submit to someone else's desires and power.

You probably more often hear the term used (along with 'not really a sub') the way SomethingCatchy defines it. That's when the submissive tries to get things his/her way and take away the dominants power, through manipulation - 'Is that the hardest you can hit? I barely felt it' - dictating the way he wants things done - 'you're not a real domme unless you do me with a strap on right now' - whining - 'that's not fair, you should use the cane!' - being disobedient in order to get a desired activity - 'no I won't do as you say, I suppose you'll have to punish me, let me lay over your lap for a spanking'. Generally trying to push the dominant into domming in the exact way the sub fantasises. Obviously this is very unattractive and frustrating for the dominant. In this case the sub isn't really submitting, he's trying to take control whilst preserving the fantasy that the dom/me is in charge. It annoys people because it basically reduces the d-type to a walking sex toy.

On the other hand, in a strong successful dynamic it doesn't really happen. You can only top from the bottom, if the other person is bottoming from the top. If I said 'No I refuse to obey, I guess you'll have to spank me!' he wouldn't reward that with a spanking. He would refuse to take the submissive role and there would be consequences that I did not enjoy instead.

I can still say 'I've always wanted to try x' or 'please can I have x' - that still leaves him with the power to decide if, when and how much we do. I can (and should!) also tell him how things make me feel, because then he's making informed decisions. And if we were doing something new that he hadn't done before, I might be giving him advice on how to do it. But I'm not trying to push him into obeying me.

If that was too long to read: short version - don't be a manipulative ass and it won't be an issue. No one will take away your sub card for having a preference or asking for something nicely.

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/8/2013 5:57:11 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Actual topping from the bottom? None.

In My world, a person can ask, request, discuss, etc, etc. Those don't bother Me.

What one must always remember is that I am the final authority. What I will do and will not do will always be up to Me. No more. No less.




Tadaaaa!!!!!!!!

The lovely lady in purple wrote my answer for me.

_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/8/2013 6:07:57 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		I don't tolerate actual topping from the bottom.

You can ask questions, make a request, we can discuss things.

I welcome that.
Heck, I don't even mind a little begging.
But you need to know where that line is or know that look that says enough.

At the end of the day I have the final say.

BTW... topping from the bottom is different than for example, me bottoming in a face sitting session and telling my slave what I want him to do.







< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/8/2013 6:36:31 AM >

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/8/2013 8:14:13 AM   
mswinters


Posts: 3
Joined: 3/5/2013
Status: offline 		I don't tolerate topping from bottom. It pisses me to no end.
It's not the begging, but the way it is said. "I want this, I want that, I want it this way, I want it now". Fuck the "I wants".
Also those "what are you going to do to me? Will I be punished? Oh please punish me."

It makes me want to give hir 2 big slaps, kick in the groin and leave.

And calling me BABY! That to me is also fucking disrespectful of my position.

< Message edited by mswinters -- 3/8/2013 8:17:39 AM >

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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/12/2013 1:21:56 PM   
Ubasti


Posts: 5
Joined: 2/11/2010
Status: offline 		Having a voice and having it heard is not topping from the bottom, its healthy and a great Dominant will listen even if she disregards it, smile. A Dominant knows she is Dominant and doesn't have an issue hearing your thoughts desires etc.

Topping from the bottom is intentionally trying to push buttons to emotionally or mentally hurt me to get something you want, not healthy. And frankly if a dominant allows it to happen, they really are not in control of self enough to be dominant. When I feel like someone is doing that, I slow down ponder what is going on in my insides recenter and then usually stop and send little subbie on their way.

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/13/2013 6:08:20 AM   
LittleMsMary


Posts: 63
Joined: 3/24/2012
Status: offline 		Some great responses here and I'd also like to second the notion that a lot of times it seems like people think that if they try to disguise their topping from the bottom as "begging" that suddenly it becomes ok simply because begging is, for some, a part of play. The big difference though is that, for me at least, that kind of begging takes place within agreed upon boundaries/roles/dynamics, not as a way to demand something.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/13/2013 10:39:43 AM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint
To me. topping from the bottom means exactly that.  The person on the bottom (the person having something done to them) directs the top (the person doing the action).  It has nothing to do with being a dominant or a submissive.  There is nothing in the words topping from the bottom that means the bottom is also a submissive.  The bottom, depending on what is being done, just might be a dominant. 

Like, for instance: I'm a Domme now, but I still like the sensations of being flogged. I will bottom for a flogging and you bet I will Top from the bottom, telling the person how I like it to be done, when I want it to stop, etc. because I am still the Dominant, even though I am bottoming. I totally understand what you are saying.

NBMG

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/13/2013 10:47:09 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5170
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint
To me. topping from the bottom means exactly that.  The person on the bottom (the person having something done to them) directs the top (the person doing the action).  It has nothing to do with being a dominant or a submissive.  There is nothing in the words topping from the bottom that means the bottom is also a submissive.  The bottom, depending on what is being done, just might be a dominant. 

Like, for instance: I'm a Domme now, but I still like the sensations of being flogged. I will bottom for a flogging and you bet I will Top from the bottom, telling the person how I like it to be done, when I want it to stop, etc. because I am still the Dominant, even though I am bottoming. I totally understand what you are saying.

NBMG


Thank you, thank you, thank you, NBMG!!!  So many people just don't get that notion. 

_____________________________

We are stardust, we are golden, and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

Yes, I am crazy about feathered creatures. I have a dozen chickens, 3 ducks, 5 geese, and 2 parakeets.

Revise that number. Just got 14 new chicks and 5 turkeys.

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)
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RE: Topping from the bottom? How much do you tolerate ... - 3/13/2013 3:33:00 PM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		as my mistress said She is in charge, as Her slave She knows me and what She does to me is just that. when play has started is not the time or place to negotiate.

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LadyPact

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Profile   Post #: 20
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