RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES

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absolutchocolat -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/12/2013 10:07:24 PM)
So because he is a movie star, he somehow deserves better treatment? Yeah, racism is shitty, but class honestly doesn't matter when dealing with ignorance.

VioletGray -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/12/2013 10:22:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat So because he is a movie star, he somehow deserves better treatment? Yeah, racism is shitty, but class honestly doesn't matter when dealing with ignorance. I think that you misunderstand entirely. Upper-class celebrities ALREADY get treated better, generally. The idea is that the mistreatment of one of the most privileged among us casts light on how the rest of us, who don't have his advantages might be treated. I think the fact that he's a celebrity is an advantage to the argument.

SadistDave -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 2:32:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Ah now I get it. Any white person speaking up against racism must be left wing. Sorry for the confusion. [8\|] Liberals just tend to automatically believe whatever the newsies are selling as racism, sexism, or just about any kind of "ism". For the most part, libs don't really apply much critical thinking to anything, they just sort of fall in line once they've recieved their marching orders. We can sum up the liberal response to the piece very simply: A black guy cries "RACISM!" and every lib in the room cries "RACISM!" without any question about what he actually wrote or what his motivation might be. None of the libs here care about the nonsensical argument he's used to justify his charge of racism. Marching orders were given. Marching orders were recieved. Cry "RACISM!"... Sorry, I require actual evidence before jumping on the bandwagon. As far as this OpEd goes.... there is none. It's an opinion piece. My opinion differs based on a complete and utter lack of factual evidence presented in the OpEd and the fact that it's such a poorly executed argument predicated on the notion that since the author is black he is an infallible expert in race relations. Let's recap his argument: I'm black. I've eaten at that deli. In fact, I eat there a lot. I feel safe enough at that deli that I will send my black children there alone. Forrest Whitaker is black. Forrest Whitaker went to the deli and was harassed because he acted suspicious. The deli is run by racists. That kind of logic would get someone kicked off a Jr. High Debate Team and sent back to gradeschool. -SD-

absolutchocolat -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 6:22:17 AM)
Having been on both sides of the coin, I know better. Going to Harvard and working in corporate America as one of the upper-class blacks you speak so highly of, I got to hear that I was so pretty to be so dark, that I was so smart to be black, that I "talk too white", so yeah...wayyyy better treatment as a house Negro. Growing up in Oakland, it was assumed I would get pregnant and drop out of school because of the color of my skin and what part of town I lived in. Some of that mess went away but a lot of the racism I have experienced came much after moving away from poverty. So pardon me if I think that's a bunch of bullshit. Been there, done that. Rich blacks can't escape racism because of the green in their wallets. Look at Obama...all the Curious George jokes and "terrorist fist bump" jokes and the welfare President stuff. Racism is as American as apple pie, to quote Malcolm X. Need more examples? I got a bunch. Past or present, you pick. quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat So because he is a movie star, he somehow deserves better treatment? Yeah, racism is shitty, but class honestly doesn't matter when dealing with ignorance. I think that you misunderstand entirely. Upper-class celebrities ALREADY get treated better, generally. The idea is that the mistreatment of one of the most privileged among us casts light on how the rest of us, who don't have his advantages might be treated. I think the fact that he's a celebrity is an advantage to the argument.

thishereboi -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 6:42:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray ORIGINAL: thishereboi And why do you consider it spying? One of the jobs of a store clerk is to watch the customers. That is why they put mirrors up so it is easier to see what they are doing. If someone is acting suspicious they get watched more closely to make sure they don't take anything. If someone looks lost they get asked if they need help finding something. It's not spying, it's part of the job. I call it spying because a.) She was trying to be covert about it, like SHE had something to hide. Then she isn't too bright. It's her job to watch everyone. quote: b.) I had no "suspicious behavior." And there is no universal rulebook for "suspicious behavior." There might not be an actual rulebook floating out there, but there are things people do that is considered suspicious behavior. Constantly looking up at the cashier, picking things up and then leaving them in other spots and wearing clothing that conceals your face. All things to watch for. Now that doesn't mean they are necessarily going to do something but it is a red flag. I am also not implying that you did anything like this. I wasn't there and I don't know the clerk in question. I said before if you had been going in there for 3 years then they should have known you. quote: In a lot of cases like these people love to imply "You just WANT it to be racism!" But personally, I find that more people will try their absolute best to believe that it wasn't racism, and will convince themselves that they're being objective. I try to believe that there is good in the world even though I know it isn't always the case. I am not sure why anyone would think that you would want it to be racism.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 7:27:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat Having been on both sides of the coin, I know better. Going to Harvard and working in corporate America as one of the upper-class blacks you speak so highly of, I got to hear that I was so pretty to be so dark, that I was so smart to be black, that I "talk too white", so yeah...wayyyy better treatment as a house Negro. Growing up in Oakland, it was assumed I would get pregnant and drop out of school because of the color of my skin and what part of town I lived in. Some of that mess went away but a lot of the racism I have experienced came much after moving away from poverty. So pardon me if I think that's a bunch of bullshit. Been there, done that. Rich blacks can't escape racism because of the green in their wallets. Look at Obama...all the Curious George jokes and "terrorist fist bump" jokes and the welfare President stuff. Racism is as American as apple pie, to quote Malcolm X. Need more examples? I got a bunch. Past or present, you pick. quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat So because he is a movie star, he somehow deserves better treatment? Yeah, racism is shitty, but class honestly doesn't matter when dealing with ignorance. I think that you misunderstand entirely. Upper-class celebrities ALREADY get treated better, generally. The idea is that the mistreatment of one of the most privileged among us casts light on how the rest of us, who don't have his advantages might be treated. I think the fact that he's a celebrity is an advantage to the argument. absolutchocolat, I think you're missing VioletGray's point. I think she is saying that if an "upper class celebrity" can get treated poorly, how much more difficult is it going to be for the average person to be treated well. It's not that she thinks celebrities should be treated better; more of an acknowledgment that they do get treated better. If they'll harass a black celebrity, what will they do to a non-celebrity black?

DesideriScuri -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 7:32:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Ah now I get it. Any white person speaking up against racism must be left wing. Sorry for the confusion. [8\|] Liberals just tend to automatically believe whatever the newsies are selling as racism, sexism, or just about any kind of "ism". For the most part, libs don't really apply much critical thinking to anything, they just sort of fall in line once they've recieved their marching orders. We can sum up the liberal response to the piece very simply: A black guy cries "RACISM!" and every lib in the room cries "RACISM!" without any question about what he actually wrote or what his motivation might be. None of the libs here care about the nonsensical argument he's used to justify his charge of racism. Marching orders were given. Marching orders were recieved. Cry "RACISM!"... Sorry, I require actual evidence before jumping on the bandwagon. As far as this OpEd goes.... there is none. It's an opinion piece. My opinion differs based on a complete and utter lack of factual evidence presented in the OpEd and the fact that it's such a poorly executed argument predicated on the notion that since the author is black he is an infallible expert in race relations. Let's recap his argument: I'm black. I've eaten at that deli. In fact, I eat there a lot. I feel safe enough at that deli that I will send my black children there alone. Forrest Whitaker is black. Forrest Whitaker went to the deli and was harassed because he acted suspicious. The deli is run by racists. That kind of logic would get someone kicked off a Jr. High Debate Team and sent back to gradeschool. -SD- How do you know Forrest Whitaker (who was fantastic in The Shield) was acting suspicious? I didn't get that from the OP's OpEd link (I didn't see any claim that he was or wasn't acting suspicious).

absolutchocolat -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 8:19:26 AM)
I disagree; I DO get her point. What you two are missing is MY point. Why should celebrities be exempt from the ignorance of racism? Explain it to me. Because they are wealthy? Because of fame? That's not how it works.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 8:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat I disagree; I DO get her point. What you two are missing is MY point. Why should celebrities be exempt from the ignorance of racism? Explain it to me. Because they are wealthy? Because of fame? That's not how it works. Do people treat celebrities better than non-celebrities? Generally, yes. Right or wrong, isn't the issue there. That's simply reporting the facts. She wasn't saying that Mr. Whitaker should have been treated better than a non-celebrity, but saying that, in general, poor treatment of a celebrity implies even worse treatment for non-celebrities.

absolutchocolat -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 9:39:49 AM)
I know what being a celebrity implies generally, but racism obviously doesn't follow that rule. I get that, DS and Violet. To me, the event drives home just how ugly racism is, but articles like this almost imply that somehow poor people of color deserve what they get. As terrible as the event may seem to some, like I said, it doesn't titillate me. Celebrities and other people with money aren't and shouldn't be exempt from society-wide issues such as racism. Money and fame can't buy tolerance, obviously.

Kirata -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 10:33:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat Go talk to black kids who get stopped and frisked by OPD, LAPD and NYPD about racism. NEW YORK -- Jay Victorino was standing outside his mother's apartment when he was grabbed by police... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/nypd-operation-clean-halls_n_2852097.html There's a piece in New York's City Journal that addresses this issue. It's rather long, and posting a few excerpts wouldn't do it justice. So I'm just going to link it. For whoever might choose to take the trouble to read it, I think you'll find that the issue isn't as simple as a few statistics and a lot of overheated rhetoric make it appear -- and that while seldom given the same amount of press, there are legitimate concerns being expressed by members of the black community that fall on the other side of this one. Courts v. Cops: The Legal War on the War on Crime K.

tj444 -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 12:41:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat Go talk to black kids who get stopped and frisked by OPD, LAPD and NYPD about racism. NEW YORK -- Jay Victorino was standing outside his mother's apartment when he was grabbed by police... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/nypd-operation-clean-halls_n_2852097.html There's a piece in New York's City Journal that addresses this issue. It's rather long, and posting a few excerpts wouldn't do it justice. So I'm just going to link it. For whoever might choose to take the trouble to read it, I think you'll find that the issue isn't as simple as a few statistics and a lot of overheated rhetoric make it appear -- and that while seldom given the same amount of press, there are legitimate concerns being expressed by members of the black community that fall on the other side of this one. Courts v. Cops: The Legal War on the War on Crime K. If you read the article I posted you would see that there are also members of the black community that fall on both sides.. yes, some love it, some hate it.. Imo, a common factor in the majority or even all of stops was likely that no matter if the people stopped were black, hispanic, or white, that they were likely all poor or low income.. and if you look poor then you will be seen as poor and there will be a much greater chance you will be stopped (as Whitaker was).. thats why in my first post I asked if he was wearing a hoodie.. I tend to dress casually.. just a cheap polo shirt, jeans, cheap runners & a hoodie.. I see how some people look at me (even tho I am white), they are judging me based on my clothing.. not that I care (as long as I am not stopped by anyone).. There have been a few guys that tried to pick me up when I was minding my own business & just walking down the street (guess I look like a crack ho guys can offer $20 for cheap sex).. [8\|] One thing tho.. I question why taxpayers should be footing the bill for being the security for these buildings.. shouldnt those buildings be hiring their own security guards instead?

Kirata -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 2:00:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 If you read the article I posted you would see that there are also members of the black community that fall on both sides... For your information, I did read it. And in my opinion, the opposing view was treated lightly, in passing, as if it was merely an incidental irrelevancy. K.

tj444 -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 2:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 If you read the article I posted you would see that there are also members of the black community that fall on both sides... For your information, I did read it. And in my opinion, the opposing view was treated lightly, in passing, as if it was merely an incidental irrelevancy. K. that is not how I saw the article on how the opposing view was treated.. I expect people to have enough brains and common sense to make up their own mind.. Its your country, not mine (I have no say anyway).. if you want it to become more and more like a police state then so be it..

Kirata -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 2:49:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 if you want it to become more and more like a police state then so be it.. That must be my secret desire, yeah. What else could it be. K.

tj444 -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 8:42:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 if you want it to become more and more like a police state then so be it.. That must be my secret desire, yeah. What else could it be. K. imo you have one already.. when you look at the abuses by govt & police.. especially unwarranted forfeiture by cops even without ever being charged with any crime.. and if you want your money/assets back you have to hire a lawyer to fight them, if its under about $15 or 20k then the legal costs dont make it worthwhile doing.. I know most Americans dont want to believe it and unless you are unfortunate to be one of the victims.. its easy to deny or pretend it doesnt exist.. http://www.ij.org/massachusetts-civil-forfeiture http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91555835

Kirata -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/13/2013 8:51:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 imo you have one already.. Close enough, yep, and heading for worse from the looks of it. K.

Politesub53 -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/14/2013 3:55:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Liberals just tend to automatically believe whatever the newsies are selling as racism, sexism, or just about any kind of "ism". For the most part, libs don't really apply much critical thinking to anything, they just sort of fall in line once they've recieved their marching orders. We can sum up the liberal response to the piece very simply: A black guy cries "RACISM!" and every lib in the room cries "RACISM!" without any question about what he actually wrote or what his motivation might be. None of the libs here care about the nonsensical argument he's used to justify his charge of racism. Marching orders were given. Marching orders were recieved. Cry "RACISM!"... Sorry, I require actual evidence before jumping on the bandwagon. As far as this OpEd goes.... there is none. It's an opinion piece. My opinion differs based on a complete and utter lack of factual evidence presented in the OpEd and the fact that it's such a poorly executed argument predicated on the notion that since the author is black he is an infallible expert in race relations. Let's recap his argument: I'm black. I've eaten at that deli. In fact, I eat there a lot. I feel safe enough at that deli that I will send my black children there alone. Forrest Whitaker is black. Forrest Whitaker went to the deli and was harassed because he acted suspicious. The deli is run by racists. That kind of logic would get someone kicked off a Jr. High Debate Team and sent back to gradeschool. -SD- Laughable....... I can add no more.

Exidor -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/14/2013 6:18:28 AM)
> famous person I never heard of the guy, and only heard of one of the movies in passing. I've never seen it, nor am I likely to. Even if the shop security guys recognized the guy, there are plenty of cases or famous or wealthy people being caught at shoplifting. If they recognized the guy, were they supposed to give him a free pass if they thought he'd stolen something? Plenty of people playing the race card here, but they're barking at the wrong tree.

tj444 -> RE: The Good, Racist People By TA-NEHISI COATES (3/14/2013 7:08:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Exidor were they supposed to give him a free pass if they thought he'd stolen something? my problem with this (imo) is that there was no proof that he stole anything.. the clerk just thought he stole something.. so a bulge in his pocket must be a stolen salami??? Are people supposed to give the clerk a free pass after frisking/assaulting & embarassing someone for no actual proof-based reason?

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