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RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 9:04:22 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I don't think he seriously believed it all to be true. Much of the book pointed interesting statistical patterns. I wasn't making the assertion that it was accurate, just an interesting observation when viewed in a vacuum from other data.

Yes it does smack of eugenics considering the elevated abortion rates within various US communities.

Sorry, I did not mean to sugjest that you did support it.
Found a link of the demographics theory, not the one publshed around 70 but more recent

www.orthocuban.com/2011/09/baby-boomers-and-the-crime-rate

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 9:15:15 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		Still you have to consider one piece of data. The millions of Americans that would have otherwise exsisted, do have an impact on demographics. If they did exsist the median age of Americans would be lower and therefore we would see a higher crime rate based on the demographic data you cite.

Now I am not condoning anything here, just talking numbers.

Just like when you hear people whine how the US is 10lbs heavier than it was 40+yrs ago. Well, on average, it is 8yrs older too. You would expect going from 28 to 36years of age to be a bit heavier. Not to say some aren't getting too obese and morbid obesity is rising.

I bring it up becasue, as I say, demographics are just too big to ignore when talking gun control.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 9:20:03 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Still you have to consider one piece of data. The millions of Americans that would have otherwise exsisted, do have an impact on demographics. If they did exsist the median age of Americans would be lower and therefore we would see a higher crime rate based on the demographic data you cite.

Now I am not condoning anything here, just talking numbers.

Just like when you hear people whine how the US is 10lbs heavier than it was 40+yrs ago. Well, on average, it is 8yrs older too. You would expect going from 28 to 36years of age to be a bit heavier. Not to say some aren't getting too obese and morbid obesity is rising.

I bring it up becasue, as I say, demographics are just too big to ignore when talking gun control.

Your post came as a bit of a shock as it was consice and logical something I am not acustomed to seeing.

Obviously I agree with everything you said.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/14/2013 9:21:24 AM >

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 9:25:46 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		LOL. Thanks!

Enginerd to the rescue!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 9:43:37 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sorry, I did not mean to sugjest that you did support it.
Found a link of the demographics theory, not the one publshed around 70 but more recent

www.orthocuban.com/2011/09/baby-boomers-and-the-crime-rate



BTW, did you read it thoroughly? The cite you posted basically said that concealed carry laws were irrelavent in detering crime.....You might want to take that one back lol.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:02:30 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sorry, I did not mean to sugjest that you did support it.
Found a link of the demographics theory, not the one publshed around 70 but more recent

www.orthocuban.com/2011/09/baby-boomers-and-the-crime-rate



BTW, did you read it thoroughly? The cite you posted basically said that concealed carry laws were irrelavent in detering crime.....You might want to take that one back lol.

Do you mean my acceptence of the theory or my support for concealed carry.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:07:39 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		You support concealed carry, no? The article saws it doesn't impact crime, either good or bad..

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:20:28 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that.

Never denied it and your right to an opinion doesn't mean you are right just that you can believe whatever you want to.


There's a world of difference between an opinion and an educated opinion.



_____________________________

While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:36:15 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

You support concealed carry, no? The article saws it doesn't impact crime, either good or bad..

Yes I do.
The places with concaled carry lead the way in the drop in crime while those with restrictive gun laws trail in this aspect.
There are two striking exceptions NYC seems to be doing well in this respect while St Louis is doing very poorly.
Of course most of the places with resrictive gun laws are the most densly populated parts of the country.
I favor concealed carry because I believe in a persons right, even resposibilty to take part in their own protection.
The police admit that in an emergency they cannot arive in time to stop a crime in progress.
It is a choice between being a victim or not. For me it is a moral decision, if I can't protect myself then in effect the bad guys have the right to do whatever they want.
I am 62 and come from a generation that believs that the law should favor the victim and not the criminal.
I grew up in a time when getting shot was an occupational hazzard of criminal activity.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:37:23 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that.

Never denied it and your right to an opinion doesn't mean you are right just that you can believe whatever you want to.


There's a world of difference between an opinion and an educated opinion.



True

PS Like your tagline but I like the undocumented one better.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/14/2013 10:39:37 AM >

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 10:46:01 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		edited because I changed my mind

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/14/2013 10:47:08 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 11:34:53 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

In other words, you're choosing to ignore the fact that the drop since 1990 coincides with the widespread adoption of concealed carry laws.

Not at all, more a matter of having nothing invested in what that even means.

Well thanks for admitting it. Confession is good for the soul. Just ignore the evidence and keep on shouting, kinda like a legless man who thinks nobody will notice if he's loud and insulting enough.

So let's sum it up. You've been arguing against defensive carry. But there is no evidence that banning defensive carry has had any effect on your homicide rate - the rate stayed the same for years after it was enacted. What changed, spectacularly, and not for the better, were your rates of assault and rape. In the U.S. over the same period, as more and more states adopted concealed carry, our homicide rate fell by half and violent crime overall is down.

There we go. That was easy. Carry on.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/14/2013 11:38:46 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 1:21:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that.

Never denied it and your right to an opinion doesn't mean you are right just that you can believe whatever you want to.


There's a world of difference between an opinion and an educated opinion.




If you actually had an educated opinion, I might debate that with you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 1:39:26 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

So let's sum it up. You've been arguing against defensive carry.

If I had, then there'd be at least one instance where I've used the phrase "defensive carry" in all of the gun threads I've participated in. Ball park.... 200 posts...?

I've had plenty to say about your 2nd amendment, for example, and gun deaths in general but I couldn't care less about whatever "defensive carry" or "conceal & carry" etc even entails, let alone bother arguing about it.

So here's your big chance for gold, genius - other than this post, quote me ONE instance where I've used either phrase (or similar) to make an argument either for or against. Do that and I'll take a turn at being your bitch.

Happy hunting and good summary - everything I've come to expect of you.


quote:

But there is no evidence that banning defensive carry has had any effect on your homicide rate - the rate stayed the same for years after it was enacted. What changed, spectacularly, and not for the better, were your rates of assault and rape. In the U.S. over the same period, as more and more states adopted concealed carry, our homicide rate fell by half and violent crime overall is down.

There we go. That was easy. Carry on.

Here's something I remember well. Especially the part where I asked you to show a comparison with US assaults & rapes etc. And tazzy shot a few holes in your selective arguments, too, about how our respective country's stats are compiled. You're an embarrassment on a level playing field and all we got was yet another of your "strategic withdrawals" to regroup and pretend you've still got credibility. (smug, to you)

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 1:58:02 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that.

Never denied it and your right to an opinion doesn't mean you are right just that you can believe whatever you want to.


There's a world of difference between an opinion and an educated opinion.




If you actually had an educated opinion, I might debate that with you.



An educated opinion? You'd have to first recognize one. That you can is highly dubious.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 2:00:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you actually had an educated opinion, I might debate that with you.

Well let's go with one of yours then...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This kid will have to go through years of therapy.

Really? The community is proud of her, the deputies are proud of her, her mother is proud of her, and perhaps most importantly she's proud of herself. She's proud of herself for overcoming her fear and defending herself instead of allowing herself to become a victim. She behaved commendably in every respect, and her community is grateful. The guy she shot was arrested in 2011 for abducting a 17-year-old girl with diminished mental capacity. And for this it's your educated opinion that she'll need "years of therapy"?

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 2:03:58 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

So here's your big chance for gold, genius - other than this post, quote me ONE instance where I've used either phrase (or similar) to make an argument either for or against. Do that and I'll take a turn at being your bitch.

I'll stand on it being an accurate characterization, and you seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's a turn to take. I guess the world looks different from your position, but don't plan on standing up anytime soon.

K.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 2:19:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And for this it's your educated opinion that she'll need "years of therapy"?


Yes. Unless you are going to try and insist that there are grown adults who shoot people need no therapy afterwards. At 12? Yeah, thats gonna affect her for a while.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 4:07:01 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And for this it's your educated opinion that she'll need "years of therapy"?


Yes. Unless you are going to try and insist that there are grown adults who shoot people need no therapy afterwards. At 12? Yeah, thats gonna affect her for a while.



As a matter of fact, yes. Some people understand the true nature of existence and such would not bother them in the least. Of course, you expect everyone to be like you.

Not to say you've killed anyone, but how's your therapy going?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/14/2013 4:11:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Are you actually going to say that therapy isnt required of our cops after a shooting? Even a brief amount? And you want me to believe a 12 year old can handle that far better than an adult who is trained to pull the trigger?

I have to wonder that, maybe, your meds need to be changed, darling.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 240
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