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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 4:42:06 PM

theRose4U

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I'm going to vote non-evolved HIV reason being "for it really to work" they have to prove that subjects won't get full blown AIDS without "the cocktail" before they try to cure AIDS with it

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 4:47:18 PM

UnholyBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

I'm going to vote non-evolved HIV reason being "for it really to work" they have to prove that subjects won't get full blown AIDS without "the cocktail" before they try to cure AIDS with it

I'll have to agree with you on this. I sure hope this pans out as I would love to see a steady decline in infection rates all across the spectrum and preferably an eradication of the virus completely.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 5:06:35 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: descrite
And we don't "need" bees for pollination. Bees do about 30% of the pollination of our edible crops. If we had no bees, pollination would still take place; in fact, there would be a dip in productivity, then something would fill the bees' niche, and we'd be back up again. If we had to, we could manually pollinate: both technology and Mexicans are cheap, and could easily replace bees.

This is bullshit. manual pollination is exceedingly man power consumptive and is simply not viable for large field crops that need bees .

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 5:21:16 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

This sounds like someone justifying a grant that includes an apiary.

This work was supported by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Grand Challenges Explorations grant number OPP1024642 ‘Fusogenic nanoparticles for combined anti-HIV/contraception.’

Somehow, I dont think the funding is a problem.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 5:33:09 PM

LPslittleclip

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if this works out to be usefull in humans it could help eliminate hiv. just doing it in a petri dish is one thing but human trials (uninfected) is where many promising drugs get eliminated for side effects or worse. but with the advances in hiv treatment and prevention this would be a welcome step to eradicating hiv altogether

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 5:38:24 PM

tazzygirl

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I get the feeling trials may actually start with infected. Just a hunch. I just cant figure out a way, beyond married couples, how one would go about intentionally infecting people to see if a theory works.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 5:54:59 PM

outlier

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It will be interesting to keep an eye on it.
Thanks for posting this.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 10:01:45 PM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

Considering how many times I have suffered because my gluten (flour) allergy wasn't caught by doctor OR pharmacy I would have to disagree. Thyroid meds, most anti-biotics & ironically skin treatment for celiac hives all have been given to me even with flour in them!!

You know, I'll have to give you that one. Gluten is pretty flipping pervasive.
I know normally things derived from shellfish or involving egg products or pig products will be labeled, though. I imagine bee toxin derivatives would be labeled, too, since they're from an animal are linked to severe allergy.

Bizarre that gluten winds up in any sort of celiac treatment, but I have actually heard that from a friend with celiac, too. So I will definitely give you that one. =p

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 10:06:23 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I get the feeling trials may actually start with infected. Just a hunch. I just cant figure out a way, beyond married couples, how one would go about intentionally infecting people to see if a theory works.

Previous HIV vaccine trials were done with HIV- partners of HIV+ people. Even protected sex with an infected partner carries a small risk of infection so they simply track the control and study groups to see if that rate of infection differs. Pretty much the only way to pass the ethical rview for a human trial of this sort.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 10:08:17 PM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Previous HIV vaccine trials were done with HIV- partners of HIV+ people. Even protected sex with an infected partner carries a small risk of infection so they simply track the control and study groups to see if that rate of infection differs. Pretty much the only way to pass the ethical rview for a human trial of this sort.

I agree, especially since they're hoping to use it to turn the tide on transmission. If they can use it to prevent a group of HIV- partners from contracting it, etc etc etc...

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/9/2013 11:04:31 PM

Winterapple

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FR
I lost an uncle and a teacher/mentor to AIDS. To see it eradicated
is one of my deepest hopes. Bee venom has also been used to help
people with MS handle their symptoms, I believe.

And we need bees, bees are important in all sorts of ways.
The thing with the honeybees is scary.

On a lighter note I recommend Invasion of the Bee Girls one
of the great b movies (ha!) from the seventies to those that
haven't seen it.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/10/2013 5:39:21 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

FR
I lost an uncle and a teacher/mentor to AIDS. To see it eradicated
is one of my deepest hopes. Bee venom has also been used to help
people with MS handle their symptoms, I believe.

And we need bees, bees are important in all sorts of ways.
The thing with the honeybees is scary.

On a lighter note I recommend Invasion of the Bee Girls one
of the great b movies (ha!) from the seventies to those that
haven't seen it.

Bee venom for treating MS is still in the trial stage as far as I know. My mom dealt with MS before she died 5 years ago.

This got my attention in another article.

quote:

Melittin is a powerful toxin found in bee venom. It can poke holes in the protective viral envelope that surrounds the human immunodeficiency virus, as well as other viruses. Free melittin in large-enough quantities can cause considerable damage.

Senior author, Samuel A. Wickline, MD, the J. Russell Hornsby Professor of Biomedical Sciences, has demonstrated that nanoparticles loaded with melittin have anti-cancer properties and have the capacity to kill tumor cells. Linking bee venom with anticancer therapies is not new, in 2004 Croatian scientists reported in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture that honey-bee products, including venom, could well have applications in cancer treatment and prevention.

Bee Venom Destroys HIV And Spares Surrounding Cells

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/10/2013 6:28:22 AM

defiantbadgirl

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Any chance it could work on other viruses like cancer causing HPV?

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/10/2013 7:11:05 AM

LillyBoPeep

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I was just reading about it being used to kill tumors - again with these loaded nanoparticles.

http://flipper.diff.org/app/items/5103

that site shows a good idea of what the nanoparticles are supposedly like.

Melittin damages HIV by destroying the lipid envelope that surrounds it. But HPV isn't a lipid coated virus, and non-enveloped virues are more stable than enveloped ones. Everything I'm finding shows mostly talk with regards to other lipid-coated viruses (jlf1969's link shows mentions of Hep B and C, too).
Herpes IS lipid-coated, though, so I wonder if it would work on that? It attacks the cell layers indescriminately, but they explain how it avoids hurting healthy cells - the nanoparticles have bumpers that cause them not to adhere with normal cells, which are larger than HIV.

it's super interesting ^_^

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/11/2013 11:06:55 PM

descrite

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quote:

That is not true in symbiotic organisms.

Well, it's a good thing plants and bees aren't symbiotic.

There have been at least five massive species die-offs (up to 90% of life on Earth) that we know of, throughout the planet's history. Life has resumed. Life on this planet will continue long after bees are gone. Life on this planet will continue long after humans are gone.

But maybe we should ask those Croatian scientists. As we all know, Croatia is famous for its rigorous, esteemed scientific community.

quote:

Somehow, I dont think the funding is a problem.

That was kind of my point.

"Bill's Dad, I need $4.8M for research."

"What kind of research?"

"Well, it involves AIDS. And bees."

"Wow. And?"

"And...lasers. It involves bees and AIDS and lasers."

"Here's a check."

quote:

manual pollination is exceedingly man power consumptive and is simply not viable for large field crops that need bees .

The moment bees are gone, anthropogenic pollination becomes viable.

See: shale gas extraction after crude hits $100/barrel.

Viennese economics is better science than Croatian biochemistry.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/12/2013 6:00:28 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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Call me skeptical. They seem to be touting it as a cure-all.

It cures cancer AND AIDS?

The first sign of a scam is that it seems too good to be true.

It's great news if it pans out but the claims seem awfully pie-in-the-sky to me.

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Post #: 36

RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/13/2013 1:39:53 AM

LillyBoPeep

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They're not touting it as a cure, just stating that (in studies, anyway) it kills certain types of cells when administered in a particular way. If you try to take lots of it in a free-roaming form, it'll quickly become toxic.

I'm not seeing any pie-in-the-sky.
Besides, penicillin killed all sorts of things in its day. =p And cipro is great for sick chickens AND kids with ear infections.

A lot of medications have multiple uses.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/14/2013 10:21:48 PM

descrite

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Uhhhh...."multiple uses," in the case of Cipro and the 'cillins (peni, ampi, amoxo, etc.) is "killing bacteria." One use. Antibiotics.

Cancer and AIDS? Two different things. It's sort of like saying, "this drug cures glaucoma AND rotates the tires on my car." That's a pretty bold claim. And often indicative, as mentioned of the more scammy types of technologies.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/15/2013 6:35:05 AM

LillyBoPeep

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well then there's wellbutrin, an antidepressant, that helps with smoking cessation. =p

The fact that the toxin is indiscriminate, to me, means that it will damage all sorts of cell walls. It will damage healthy ones in too high of a concentration. So it damages cancer, and damages HIV, and damages healthy cells. It damages whatever it touches in too high of a concentration, like a lot of things. I still don't see how that's scammy.

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RE: Bee Venom Kills HIV - 3/15/2013 7:58:23 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
It's great news if it pans out but the claims seem awfully pie-in-the-sky to me.

I don't think it's either pie in the sky or a scam exactly. I'm just absolutely certain that this is about on part with genetic engineering in terms of safety. I am certain the FDA will fast track this shit. I'm more curious to see what various European authorities will do.

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