Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

just a thought, a question, and me


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> just a thought, a question, and me Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
just a thought, a question, and me - 3/8/2013 10:51:59 PM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline 		Hi all!

i've been giving some thought to relationships. Mostly relationships in general, though i have the tendency to look at them from an M/s point of view. In conversations with people i have come across many that feel the relationship is about what the M needs and the things the s needs are not important. My thoughts are... every relationship should be symbiotic. M gets what they need and in turn s does as well. it seems rather pointless to enter into or continue with a relationship where you do not get fulfillment of your personal needs. From an s point of view your personal needs may not be more important than those of M... but they still matter right?

_____________________________

"Consumed with memories that preceded today; given a chance to bereave life that's slipping away"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/8/2013 11:50:46 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I can only speak for my relationship and no one else's. Do I get all my needs met? No. Does he get all his needs met? mmm....most likely, unless they are something I can't provide for him. In that case, there's nothing I can do about that. I wish I could though.

As for me, yeah, there are some things I don't get but I'm ok with that and so I guess I don't see them as needs. Those things I would have never gone without before I met him but once I was with him it just no longer mattered. There are some things I still desire, but I put them on the back burner and that's where they stay. I just think about it from time to time and then move on. No big deal.

I guess I only have two real needs in our relationship and that's to make him happy and to be loved and he fulfills both.

So I guess it comes down to just how important those needs are to someone and if they can let them go or not and still be happy.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 2:26:51 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Mmm...
I could write an essay on this stuff, which could
probably double as an autobiography...
(this is where my sig line strongly applies.)

It's really a very broad topic!
What's the measure of a leader?
How do you define a tyrant?

The question of a subs wants/needs, is really a
question of compatibility when you get down to it.

When you say "every relationship should be
symbiotic..."
Maybe they should, but in reality when two people
come togeather, there's also the chance that their
wants/needs are uncomplimentary/incompatible,
and it's not uncommon for one or both to get hurt.

That's obviously a very basic statement. Nothing
new there, but worth pointing out. There doesn't
always have to be a bad guy when someones hurt..
Sometimes things just work out like that.
People don't always choose what's good for them.
Some people aren't good at "relationshipping".

Not all relationships work for both (or even, either)
parties, the ability to walk away and try again, is
something not everyone has, and it's not always
a matter of "settling". Children can make walking
away not such an easy proposition, and rightly so.

But people can grow, wants can change, I'm sure
everyone has noticed at sometime to their pleasure
or regret (as the case may be) a partners traits/
habbits/ ways of thinking have managed to rub off
on them.
People can grow togeather or appart, or even
outgrow...

I have had a lot of success with just being
straightforward about my expectations and making
it clear how much I value openness.
You really can determine what kind of relationship
you have by being proactive, and it's best to fix
problems when they first appear before they become
a fixture.

My opinion... Do the wants of a sub/slave matter?
Of course.
Is it about what the dom/master wants?
Of course.
What happens when those two things don't match
up, will depend on the people and the relationship.

But all talk of what should or shouldn't be in M/s
aside, you should do what makes you happy if you
can. It beats the alternative.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 3/9/2013 3:26:16 AM >

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 2:50:23 AM   
thezeppo


Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline 		Edited to say: Free reply

Hmm, an interesting question. From my limited perspective it appears that an 's' would take pleasure from giving pleasure so to speak. I completely agree every relationship should be symbiotic, I can't see a way a relationship of any kind would work unless both parties were getting what they needed. So from my point of view I would need to feel that I was going out of my way to please her, that I was showing a certain level of devotion. I would also like to feel that she wanted me to be there so if I had the impression that she considered me to be a 'worthless loser' I would want to leave (I think that is something that I have picked up from an online perspective, maybe not so much of an issue in the real world). I wouldn't consider that having my needs met, because I am looking for a certain kind of relationship and I would be unhappy with the nature of the relationship itself. I would consider the specific kinks that I have as 'wants' rather than 'needs', I would absolutely tell my partner what I liked but I wouldn't necessarily expect it to happen that way because in my opinion that wouldn't really be me being submissive. I may desire certain things but I don't need them, particularly if my partner derives no pleasure from these activities. I think if one is prepared to be truly honest with themselves about their 'needs' and 'wants' then all of a sudden an M/s relationship would look a lot more symbiotic to those on the outside of one.

< Message edited by thezeppo -- 3/9/2013 3:12:38 AM >

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 5:12:44 AM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline
quote:

There doesn't always have to be a bad guy when someone's hurt...


I don't have anything to say regarding this line; I just thought there was a great deal of wisdom in it.

To the OP: Again, the answer to your question will vary from relationship to relationship, but I'll give you my perspective for the sake of discussion. The way I see it, in an ideal relationship, I should be able to focus completely on my partner and shouldn't have to focus on my own needs, because he has my best interests at heart and has my needs covered. Does reality work out like that? No, most of the time, it doesn't. But it is an ideal my partner and I strive for, and on those days when we do reach that perfect harmony, the world is magical (let me know if I am getting too ewwy-gooey and love-dovey for you). If he looks out for me and I look out for him, then we can both be 100% dedicated to each other and still have our needs fulfilled.

That being said, as a submissive, my goal is to put my partner's desires before my own in order to make him fulfilled and happy. That is the manner in which I express my love, and I would feel empty and hollow with a partner who didn't allow me to love him through service and an unequal power dynamic. So, as you can see, since one of my needs is service, I'm not really "giving up" my needs by prioritizing my partner, I am fulfilling them. And he, in turn, helps me fulfill my submissive needs by reinforcing a dynamic that appears, on the surface, to be prioritizing him. If that makes any sense? For us, a D/s dynamic is symbiotic, because of our respective natures.

But that being said, I consider myself a submissive rather than a slave for a reason. These terms are defined differently by everyone, but to me, a slave is one who gives up control of every aspect of his/her life to the dominant partner. And in order to avoid a conflict between those things I need to thrive and my partner's desires, I refuse to give up control over certain aspects of my life. Unless I've told him "you can dictate this aspect of my life," then it is off limits. For example, my career and education are 100% under my control. My bf does not have the right to tell me what I should major in, or where I am allowed to go to school. Out of concern for him, I might take his opinion into account, but I get to make the final decision. The same goes with my family. I get to decide how I handle my family, and that's the end of it. He gets a say, but the final decision is mine.

M/s might be possible one day, but it would have to come naturally. It isn't something I actively seek out, or would try to push onto myself. The degree of trust necessary for that is huge for me, especially since I consider my submission a choice/act of love rather than a natural tendency. I think, for a lot of people in M/s relationships, if the master is making a poor decision and decides not to heed the slave's warning, then the s-type will go ahead and obey anyway, out of respect for the power dynamic. Then, if the master's actions result in bad consequences, the couple just takes the hit and moves on. And I am fine with letting my bf make mistakes that impact me negatively in certain situations, but not when it comes to my career or family relationships. And since he isn't me and will never know my field of expertise or family as well as I do, he is much less equipped to make decisions regarding those two areas of my life.

(in reply to thezeppo)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 5:50:00 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Speaking only for myself and Carol, we don't think in terms of my needs and her needs. We made ourselves a unit. Now there is "our needs". ALL of "our needs" are important to us. As long as your thinking in terms of some sort of zero sum game where you balance off your needs against his needs then you are doomed to some sort of adversarial relationship. Carol and I are on the same team and we work together to get everyone's needs met.

When I am making decisions the measuring stick I use is "maximizing OUR happiness". It has nothing to do with "me" or "her". It'd be pointless for me to even think that way. There is no way I could be happy if she was not.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 5:50:42 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		HisPet21 makes a great point - "symbiotic because of our respective natures."

Because of that, the imbalance, in and of itself, is fulfilling, at least for me. It's more fulfilling than any singular instance of "i want X, you want Y," where I may not get X. I don't need to get what I want every time. And sometimes things that we say we need aren't really needs. They can be very passionate wants, or even casual wants that SEEM important in the moment. But the relationship itself is more meaningful.

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to HisPet21)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 6:07:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Of course an s-type gets their personal needs fulfilled, other wise, what's the point?

It's a relationship, not real time slavery, you get options. And a huge option is choosing the right person to submit to.

Though I agree with Jeff in terms of how long term real time relationships are about combined needs or the needs of the couple as a unit, what do you do *before* the two of you are a unit?

In my mind, the s-type still needs to get some personal fulfillment, and what exactly that comprises is going to vary drastically from person to person. If it didn't, then s-types would just hook up with the next 'master' coming down the pike. (And some do, but that's an act of desperation; don't be desperate!!)

Sooo...where does that leave you, OP? Look beyond what someone says to what they do. Does he seem to care about you as a person? Is he looking out for your emotional needs? Is building a solid foundation of *mutual* trust and respect an obvious end goal?

What MY emotional needs are, and what lw's emotional needs are, may be very very different, but we have compatibility in our relationships b/c our needs are getting fulfilled.

If someone is not working hard to figure out what your needs are and how he can fulfill them, move on.





< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 3/9/2013 6:08:13 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 6:12:31 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Though I agree with Jeff in terms of how long term real time relationships are about combined needs or the needs of the couple as a unit, what do you do *before* the two of you are a unit?

I'm not sure there is such a time for me. I guess that time would be called "friends" and none of this stuff applies. I just tend to think in terms of teams. I also think my strongly visceral assertion that "authority=responsibility" pretty much demands that the moment I start exercising authority over anyone then I'm already putting their needs on par or over mine.

Quite obviously, reading these forums, most people don't feel similarly.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 7:42:21 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		What you're missing op is that I can get my needs met by meeting his. So, okay, we're not going out for Chinese food which I would prefer. But I get to see him happy because he's getting a great chicken parm and is happy. It isn't as though I hate what I'm getting, I don't. But if asked would I rather he be happy or just okay I will pick him being happy. Because that makes me happy.

Knowing that I'm contributing to him being absolutely satisfied is very important to me.

And the other thing here, is that he's not an asshat. It's important to him that I get my needs met. If you pick a decent, caring person then part of him being satisfied will include knowing that you're happy and that he's the person who made you happy.

Beyond all of this is compatibility. If what makes him happy is something that causes you miserable, then you aren't compatible. The greater the compatibility, the less this issue arises because you will both be fulfilled by the same things.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 3/9/2013 7:46:40 AM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 8:10:15 AM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline 		thank you for the replies. as always you all have given me a lot to think on.

Jeff's point in that he and Carol don't have separate needs but consider them "our needs" is a good one. we are not a full unit yet. we don't live together and many aspects of our lives aren't meshed. i didn't mean to make it sound as if i have a "zero sum" type balance of his needs versus my own. i was just curious to know how people see things. Perspective is something that is individual and being able to see other's perspective is always helpful.

i should make it clear that i don't feel as if i have tons of needs that are being unmet. there is really only one that i can place as a need that doesn't get met. i have had some trouble "letting go" or pushing things to the side. i believe that comes more from my relationship being fairly new ( a few months shy of a year ) though i could be wrong. i do feel that in order for a relationship to be successful, both parties involved need to get something out of the relationship that fulfill the basic needs of human nature. Whatever that might be to them, as it varies i am sure from person to person.

i tend to put things in terms of biology. Symbiosis vs parasitic. it seems to me that pushing all needs aside for s would turn the relationship into a parasitic one. which is why i asked for other's perspectives...

quote:


Look beyond what someone says to what they do.


this is an excellent point. takes me back to (maybe) my first post here... people doing what they say and saying what they mean. Actions versus words. and to answer your question Chatte - yes he does seem to genuinely care about me as a person. i believe that he tries to look out for my emotional needs and build a mutual trust. in turn i also try to serve him to the best of my ability. i think perhaps sometimes i get... frustrated and think too much. in fact i KNOW that i think too much. something that we are working on together to "tame". There are times that i don't hear from him for a few days. Sometimes longer than a few. Mostly that is due to work schedules and sleep schedules. Sometimes i feel that the need i have that isn't being fulfilled is interaction with him. Or rather MORE interaction with him.



_____________________________

"Consumed with memories that preceded today; given a chance to bereave life that's slipping away"

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 8:22:42 AM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

What you're missing op is that I can get my needs met by meeting his. So, okay, we're not going out for Chinese food which I would prefer. But I get to see him happy because he's getting a great chicken parm and is happy. It isn't as though I hate what I'm getting, I don't. But if asked would I rather he be happy or just okay I will pick him being happy. Because that makes me happy.

Knowing that I'm contributing to him being absolutely satisfied is very important to me.



i don't feel that i am missing that point at all. Meeting his needs be serving him as i do... that makes me very happy and fills need within me as well. Him being happy is also important to me. i'm not seeing need as something that is like going out for chinese food. to me that is a want. and i can live without it.

need... i see need as being things like him being there for moral support when i had to put my dog down. i very much needed him there that day. He set aside things that he was doing in order to be there for me.

_____________________________

"Consumed with memories that preceded today; given a chance to bereave life that's slipping away"

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 9:41:52 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha
i tend to put things in terms of biology. Symbiosis vs parasitic. it seems to me that pushing all needs aside for s would turn the relationship into a parasitic one. which is why i asked for other's perspectives...

Yeah... but honestly about the only place I ever hear anyone saying such a thing is online. In other words, I have that classified as "yet another stupid internet BDSM meme" rather than an actual part of BDSM.

There's another thing to note also. I oft-times hear the submissive side of an established couple say something to the effect of "It's all about him". The dominant side of the same couple almost always has a much more nuanced and balanced view. Kana & Littlewonder are my favorite poster children for this. That makes sense to me -- especially in a TPE relationship. By the very nature of our roles I encourage Carol to place my command above all other things including self-preservation and the like. My role, however, demands a broader viewpoint or else as you say it becomes parasitic and inevitably cannot last.

So be careful to note who's viewpoint you are reading. The view from the s-chair isn't the same as the view from the d-chair.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:03:30 AM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		It really depends on what you consider as a need. In my eyes, there very few needs but a whole lot of wants. I believe the needs of both individuals are important, whereas the wants are just extra perks. Whether my needs are being met or not is measured by my happiness.
If your needs are not being met, whatever they may be, there's really no point IMO.

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:07:30 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		Oddly enough this is something I have thought of and mentioned often. When I first stumbled upon D/s info, like many vanilla people my belief was that it was all about the dominant...that the sub really got nothing... The more I read and learned, I too saw a symbiotic relationship..and I think most people miss that. I also realized that, like every other relationship in the world (husband & wife, parent & child, boss & employee) each person has a role and with it comes responsibilities and rewards. Does the M get whatever he wants? probably. Does the s sometimes forgo something he or she wants? probably. The difference is that you ACCEPT your role based on what you want and need. A dominant or a master takes on a lot more responsibility and risk just like a parent or a boss. He/she makes the decisions and gets first dibs on rewards because of that. The sub gets to be the follower..the freedom from the decision making. I would always rather be a soldier who risks only my life then to be a general who risks others' lives...in a nutshell, I think that is the difference

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:14:48 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss
Does the M get whatever he wants? probably.

Only in some magical fairy-tale does this occur.

Or, failing that, I'm not simply doing it wrong... I'm doing it WAY, WAY, WAY wrong -- as was every leader I have ever respected in my entire life.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:15:34 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

From an s point of view your personal needs may not be more important than those of M... but they still matter right?


I think people often confuse needs and wants.
I also think there are different levels of needs.

Do my needs matter to my primary? Yes.
However, I don't expect him to meet all of my needs.
Anymore than he expects me to meet all of his needs.
Even if we want to meet a specific need, sometimes it's simply not possible for what ever reason.

There are times, where it is one sided.
Where it is all about him. I do get a lot of satisfaction from meeting his needs, even if that need is leaving him the fuck alone or letting him be an ass. Lol

Hell, there are days where I have to focus on me and not worry about his needs.
We both understand that and the reasons behind it.

I have to decide if those needs not being meet are deal breakers.
He wouldn't fault me if I needed something and if he couldn't give it to me if I decided to seek it else where. And I wouldn't fault him. Even if that meant us ending our relationship.

_____________________________

LilSquaw
Lifestyle & ProSwitch
Fetish Model, Producer, and Website Owner

http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:27:06 AM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha
i tend to put things in terms of biology. Symbiosis vs parasitic. it seems to me that pushing all needs aside for s would turn the relationship into a parasitic one. which is why i asked for other's perspectives...


Yeah... but honestly about the only place I ever hear anyone saying such a thing is online. In other words, I have that classified as "yet another stupid internet BDSM meme" rather than an actual part of BDSM.

There's another thing to note also. I oft-times hear the submissive side of an established couple say something to the effect of "It's all about him". The dominant side of the same couple almost always has a much more nuanced and balanced view. Kana & Littlewonder are my favorite poster children for this. That makes sense to me -- especially in a TPE relationship. By the very nature of our roles I encourage Carol to place my command above all other things including self-preservation and the like. My role, however, demands a broader viewpoint or else as you say it becomes parasitic and inevitably cannot last.

So be careful to note who's viewpoint you are reading. The view from the s-chair isn't the same as the view from the d-chair.



just for clarity... in your first line do you mean that seeing relationships as symbiotic vs parasitic is the online BDSM meme? or the pushing all needs aside on s part ?

while here on the forums i tend to take note of the viewpoint i am reading because here there is such a distinction between M and s points. while i tend to understand or relate to the s type view ( due to my nature of being an s type most likely ) i always appreciate and take note of the M view as well. i enjoy taking in pointers from all viewpoints and using them to further develop or understand my own. i really cannot express enough how much some of the threads and replies have helped me. Even the ones i may not agree with or like have definitely shed light on certain subjects where i might not have seen that light before.

_____________________________

"Consumed with memories that preceded today; given a chance to bereave life that's slipping away"

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:34:02 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha
just for clarity... in your first line do you mean that seeing relationships as symbiotic vs parasitic is the online BDSM meme? or the pushing all needs aside on s part ?

Sorry, the idea that an s-type should have no needs or, if he/she does have them that it will somehow magically work out to totally ignore them.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: just a thought, a question, and me - 3/9/2013 10:39:09 AM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline 		thank you for clarifying... i thought that might be what you meant but i don't like to assume to know people's thought process.



_____________________________

"Consumed with memories that preceded today; given a chance to bereave life that's slipping away"

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> just a thought, a question, and me Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094