RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:14:31 PM)

quote:

If they aren't separate but equal, why do you INSIST on calling it something DIFFERENT.
If it's equal, call it the same damn thing and those backward folk who don't like it can grow the hell up.

Well said, Hill. Many thanks!



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:15:12 PM)

quote:

So what's their non-homophobic basis for denying gays and lesbians the use of the word "marriage"?


It is a compromise I believe between their desire for fairness and religious beliefs. It is a little like letting go a little…slipping down the rope so to speak …rather that letting go completely.

I truly believe that within a reasonably short time marriage will be accepted for all…but for now it is an argument that is holding back what is important… the rights.

Butch



MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:16:25 PM)


quote:


...remember the majority of people of faith in this country are NOT homophobes...

Butch


SINCE WHEN????



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:18:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS


quote:


...remember the majority of people of faith in this country are NOT homophobes...

Butch


SINCE WHEN????


Why does "People of faith" have fuckall to do with defining the law. I thought we had a thing called a Constitution that prohibited that bullshit.



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:21:49 PM)

quote:

If they aren't separate but equal, why do you INSIST on calling it something DIFFERENT


Because it is different..one is between a man and a woman and the other is between the same sex... it is different....at least in the minds of millions... And that means something as a voting public.

Now as soon as the Court rules on the laws banning same sex unions then the vote will not be so important.

I started this conversation not according to my beliefs but I thought the thread needed a representation of the beliefs of many Americans that are not fanatics one way or the other. Ignoring this group is NOT the way to move forward on equal rights and that was my point and why I am playing an advocate.



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:26:12 PM)

quote:

Why does "People of faith" have fuckall to do with defining the law. I thought we had a thing called a Constitution that prohibited that bullshit


Unless I am mistaken the Supreme Court is taking this question up...even if indirectly. I for one can't see how they can uphold marriage or civil union bans.

Butch



dcnovice -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:29:26 PM)

quote:

It is a compromise I believe between their desire for fairness and religious beliefs.

You and I both know that those "religious beliefs" are teachings about the immorality of homosexuality.


quote:

I truly believe that within a reasonably short time marriage will be accepted for all…but for now it is an argument that is holding back what is important… the rights.

This brought to mind a passage from MLK's Letter From a Birmingham Jail:

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:31:02 PM)

I agree there was a time when you would be right...but i don't believe this is true today...and the polls say so...As I said times are changing and gays are more and more accepted. Just look at all the local new laws making discrimination against gays illegal even if our federal government refuses to do so.

And the majority of the people electing these local legislatures are Religious.

Butch



dcnovice -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:31:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You know, I've always wondered about very camp-acting gay men. At what age does their behaviour begin to look camp? Or is it generally camp from the get-go?

There's a photo of me in my grandmother's shoes and hat. I think I was maybe five. [:)]



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:36:15 PM)

quote:

You and I both know that those "religious beliefs" are teachings about the immorality of homosexuality


That will never change...but the acceptance of sinners will. You cannot rewrite the Bible but you can follow the Bibles teachings on forgiveness. We are all sinners and can all be forgiven…If God can forgive so should we. Now I am aware that means crap to the non-religious but understanding and changing the views of those opposed will guarantee a change.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:46:24 PM)

quote:

Still playing devils advocate, because it doesnt seem like it Butch.



You have been reading all my posts I hope... And you have been reading all the stories in the news on same sex unions in America... Right or wrong do you believe I am representing a good portion of Americans views on the subject?

I think what I have been saying goes to the true heart of the argument and ignoring one side is not getting the full picture. Without knowing the reasons people feel the way they do then there can be no movement forward... That is why I am saying what I am saying.

Butch



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:49:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


It is a compromise I believe between their desire for fairness and religious beliefs.

The constitution of the United States prohibits making law because of "Religious Beliefs".



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:53:11 PM)

As a side note I am trying to give the opposing view held by many well meaning Americans...not fanatics that only follow political party lines. We get enough of them on this site and given time they will post here on this thread.

What I am saying is not popular here... or even right, or at least not right according to most of us posting here, but it does represent the real force against this basic human right...even if misguided.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:55:42 PM)

quote:

e constitution of the United States prohibits making law because of "Religious Beliefs".



Strange you would say that considering the majority of our laws are based on just that....Religious beliefs.

Butch



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:57:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


That will never change...but the acceptance of sinners will. You cannot rewrite the Bible but you can follow the Bibles teachings on forgiveness.

2 questions.

1. Which WEAL and TWUE version of the Bible are you talking about here? There are a dozen or more and each group claims to have the only one that is legitimate.

2. There are millions of people who think the Bible is a nice little morality play that was put together by Bronze age Clerics/Rulers in order to keep their superstitious minions in line.
Is that any way to run a 1st world nation in the 21st century?



Lucylastic -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 6:57:16 PM)

Instead of fighting for equal rights, shouldnt they just be RIGHTS everyone has...
They arent YOURS To actually GIVE ANYONE
(to the devils advocate)



Hillwilliam -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 7:00:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

e constitution of the United States prohibits making law because of "Religious Beliefs".



Strange you would say that considering the majority of our laws are based on just that....Religious beliefs.

Butch

Incorrect. The majority of our laws are based on English common law.



dcnovice -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 7:01:13 PM)

quote:

That will never change...but the acceptance of sinners will.

And here, at last, we come to the real nub of the issue.

Allowing faggots and dykes to have "civil unions" keeps them an ego-soothing notch below "real" married folk. They're couples of a sort, those queers with the exquisite houses and gardens, and we're "accepting" these "sinners" in our grand and magnanimous way. See how tolerant we are! (And they do bring up property values.)

Calling gay and lesbian pairings "marriages," on the other hand, affords them the same dignity granted to other couples. Now the once graciously accepted sinners are asking to be seen as equals in the sight of society, as if they were "just as good" as the heteros. And that seems to be a bridge too far for poor Butch and those "people of faith" who share his outlook.

ETA note to mods: My use of derogatory terms applied to me and other GLBT people is sarcasm meant to make a point.



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 7:02:48 PM)

quote:

English common law


hmmm I wonder what that was based on?

But i am not arguing with you... I agree with you when it comes to the courts

Butch



kdsub -> RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG (3/15/2013 7:07:56 PM)

quote:

Allowing faggots and dykes to have "civil unions"


If you believe the vast majority of Christians actually think that way then no sense in us continuing this conversation... You are closed minded…Or maybe bitter because of personal experience… I can understand that.

And anyway you may be right.

Butch



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