A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 12:24:52 AM)

A discussion about race descended into chaos at CPAC on Friday when an attendee suggested slaves benefited from being given "food and shelter".

The provocatively titled session, "Trump the Race Card: Are You Sick and Tired of Being Called a Racist and You Know You're Not One", had been billed as offering a way for Republicans to counter suggestions of racism and win over minority voters.

But it fell apart when two people at CPAC, the largest annual gathering of US conservatives, interjected from the floor and and made a series of extreme remarks.

The session's moderator, K Carl Smith, described himself as a "Frederick Douglass Republican", an audience member interjected. "When Douglass came through slavery … he [wrote] a letter to his former slave master and said: 'I forgive you for all the things you did to me'," Smith said.

From the floor, Scott Terry, pictured, asked: "For giving him shelter and food for all those years?"

* * *

After the session, Terry, 30, claimed to the Guardian that he was a direct descendant of former confederate president Jefferson Davis, and that he was "not prepared to throw all my ancestors under the bus".

Asked if he disagreed with slavery, Terry described it as a "complicated issue. I can't make one broad statement that categorically it was evil all the time because that's not true". Asked to clarify his comments about "shelter and food", Terry said: "The slaves couldn't just work without being supplied quarters and all that. And you couldn't just … it's not legal to murder a slave. Slaves even had rights under the old south."

Terry was accompanied by Matthew Heimbach, 21, who decried Martin Luther King as a "Marxist". Heimbach is the president of the White Students Union at Towson University in Maryland, a white nationalist group that has been the source of numerous controversies.

When the chairman made a reference to King, Heimbach shouted from the floor that King was a "Marxist" and said that CPAC was "Surrender Con" because it never supported running a true white conservative as a presidential candidate. "We are losing. We keep running moderate candidates."

Source: The Guardian

Well, I guess GOP strategists have identified two guys not to use in their minority outreach. [:)]

As always with a story like this, the question arises: Were these just two isolated loons, or were they saying what others were thinking?




DaNewAgeViking -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 2:11:01 AM)

So how many of the audience booed these two, as against how many cheered? Next question.
[sm=ballchain.gif]



tweakabelle -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 3:19:40 AM)

quote:

As always with a story like this, the question arises: Were these just two isolated loons, or were they saying what others were thinking?


Does it really matter that much?

That they are all in the same party as the loons tells its own story doesn't it?



MrRodgers -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 3:28:35 AM)

This is very indicative of the current state of affairs of the predominantly racists, xenophobic, ignorant, white, repub, so-called conservative.

First, I very much doubt Frederick Douglass wrote any such letter. Second, slaves were most often charged with feeding and clothing themselves and I doubt any slave felt thanks for room & board in exchange for a life time of exponentially more valuable labor.

Third, for a 21 year old and of course by definition, extremely ignorant right wing repub to shout out that King was a Marxist, proves as it almost always does with most on the right today...he doesn't know the meaning of the word Marxist or such a statement, has listened to others and let them do his thinking for him like most of the right today in blurting out such a statement and...he was wrong.



tazzygirl -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 3:36:50 AM)

quote:

Asked if he disagreed with slavery, Terry described it as a "complicated issue. I can't make one broad statement that categorically it was evil all the time because that's not true". Asked to clarify his comments about "shelter and food", Terry said: "The slaves couldn't just work without being supplied quarters and all that. And you couldn't just … it's not legal to murder a slave. Slaves even had rights under the old south."


Willful killing of a slave exacts a fine of 700 pounds, and "passion" killing 350 pounds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes#Deep_South



vincentML -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 5:01:56 AM)

They were claiming that outreach and diversity in the GOP were disenfranchising young, white southern males. SOURCE

Diversity? In the Republican Party? Really?



vincentML -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 5:11:30 AM)

quote:

First, I very much doubt Frederick Douglass wrote any such letter.


I will now bring this letter to a close, you shall hear from me again unless you let me hear from you. I intend to make use of you as a weapon with which to assail the system of slavery—as a means of concentrating public attention on the system, and deepening their horror of trafficking in the souls and bodies of men. I shall make use of you as a means of exposing the character of the American church and clergy—and as a means of bringing this guilty nation with yourself to repentance. SOURCE



Fightdirecto -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 6:48:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

They were claiming that outreach and diversity in the GOP were disenfranchising young, white southern males. SOURCE

Diversity? In the Republican Party? Really?

There is, and always seems to have, the belief among some people that "rights" are a zero-sum game - that to give or allow someone to have a "right", you have to take a "right" away from someone else.




vincentML -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 7:21:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

They were claiming that outreach and diversity in the GOP were disenfranchising young, white southern males. SOURCE

Diversity? In the Republican Party? Really?

There is, and always seems to have, the belief among some people that "rights" are a zero-sum game - that to give or allow someone to have a "right", you have to take a "right" away from someone else.

Soooooo . . . . . does that hold true as well for the Bill of Rights in our Constitution? Or for the 14th Amendment guarantee of Equal Protection?

Does it also mean that when you treat some people with human dignity you deprive others of human dignity?

What nonsense [:-]



Owner59 -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 7:31:11 AM)

It`s so bad that you won`t see normal republicans defending it......it must suck.[:D]





Fightdirecto -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 7:37:47 AM)

ThinkProgress

quote:

....an audience member from North Carolina, 30-year-old Scott Terry, asked whether Republicans could endorse races remaining separate but equal. After the presenter, K. Carl Smith of Frederick Douglass Republicans, answered by referencing a letter by Frederick Douglass forgiving his former master, the audience member said “For what? For feeding him and housing him?” Several people in the audience cheered and applauded Terry’s outburst.

After the exchange, Terry muttered under his breath, “why can’t we just have segregation?” noting the Constitution’s protections for freedom of association.

ThinkProgress spoke with Terry, who sported a Rick Santorum sticker and attended CPAC with a friend who wore a Confederate Flag-emblazoned t-shirt, about his views after the panel. Terry maintained that white people have been “systematically disenfranchised” by federal legislation.

When asked by ThinkProgress if he’d accept a society where African-Americans were permanently subservient to whites, he said “I’d be fine with that.” He also claimed that African-Americans “should be allowed to vote in Africa,” and that “all the Tea Parties” were concerned with the same racial problems that he was.

At one point, a woman challenged him on the Republican Party’s roots, to which Terry responded, “I didn’t know the legacy of the Republican Party included women correcting men in public.”

He claimed to be a direct descendent of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.



PeonForHer -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 8:19:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Diversity? In the Republican Party? Really?

There is, and always seems to have, the belief among some people that "rights" are a zero-sum game - that to give or allow someone to have a "right", you have to take a "right" away from someone else.




Very, very true. This was an example of utilitarian moral thinking that Kant fought hard against, amongst . See e.g.

http://www.immortaltechnique.co.uk/Thread-Brief-Overview-of-Kantianism-Vs-Utilitarianism-I-Wrote




Owner59 -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 8:27:18 AM)

Is it just a coincidence that Rand Paul(the gop`s new face)wants to do away with anti-discrimination laws....making it legal to not serve blacks again,making it legal to refuse a meal,a room or a seat on a bus.......again?


And our conservative CM members pretend to wonder why their party can`t attract non-whites?!?![8|]






JeffBC -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 8:38:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
That they are all in the same party as the loons tells its own story doesn't it?

No. Up until the last election I was in the same party as a bunch of loons too (Democratic). That didn't make me a loon. It made me first clueless then gutless.



JeffBC -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 8:46:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Is it just a coincidence that Rand Paul(the gop`s new face)wants to do away with anti-discrimination laws....making it legal to not serve blacks again,making it legal to refuse a meal,a room or a seat on a bus.......again?

Actually, believe it or not, I'd guess that it is coincidence. I could be wrong but I think he's more of a libertarian than a racist. It's hard to pick which is worse... one system enslaves everyone and the other enslaves only people of a certain color. I just think Rand Paul is yet another ideologue who doesn't know and doesn't care about the results of his ideology. He just wants it -- at any cost.



Fightdirecto -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 9:25:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Actually, believe it or not, I'd guess that it is coincidence. I could be wrong but I think he's more of a libertarian than a racist. It's hard to pick which is worse... one system enslaves everyone and the other enslaves only people of a certain color. I just think Rand Paul is yet another ideologue who doesn't know and doesn't care about the results of his ideology. He just wants it -- at any cost.

I actually agree with you.

One of the biggest problems with Libertarians is their willful ignorance of The Law Of Unintended Consequences.

Like the Libertarian who refused to pay a tax to pay for the local volunteer fire department and then went ballistic when his house caught fire and the volunteer fire department wouldn't put the fire out, focusing instead on protecting the neighbor's home (the neighbor having paid the tax).

You get what you pay for - and you don't get what you don't pay for...

[image]local://upfiles/42188/8178E6310CD9420EB8F80B8C1F66C446.jpg[/image]



Owner59 -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 9:30:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Is it just a coincidence that Rand Paul(the gop`s new face)wants to do away with anti-discrimination laws....making it legal to not serve blacks again,making it legal to refuse a meal,a room or a seat on a bus.......again?

Actually, believe it or not, I'd guess that it is coincidence. I could be wrong but I think he's more of a libertarian than a racist. It's hard to pick which is worse... one system enslaves everyone and the other enslaves only people of a certain color. I just think Rand Paul is yet another ideologue who doesn't know and doesn't care about the results of his ideology. He just wants it -- at any cost.



Hiding behind the "libertarian" label won`t help him....or anyone who feels this way.

Getting rid of anti-discrimination laws is not a common theme of libertarians....btw.

Though this may fit in the general "get rid of government" themes they have....the average libertarian does not feel the same as Rand and knows that the world doesn`t opperate in a vacuum.

This is why he and Stassol spent half their words and time claiming not to be racist or that they "likee the out-come" of the civil rights act(s) yada yada.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrsNGSCC6aI


Just look how Stossel is all cock-sure he`s right.....he won`t even listen....

Their "let the market decide" nonsense, as to how best to deal with open discrimination, is foolish at best and immoral at worst.They know this....and what it is they`re suggesting.....

It would be open season on almost anyone vulnerable or handicapped or at risk.

Rand is an elected republican.He could have ran in the libertarian party, but chose not to.

And....he`s one of the most popular republicans...... of the extreme "tea-party" republicans.

Even tho the thirsty/awkward Marko is a t-parti-fav and gave the official gop response to the SOTUA,Rand felt it necessary to give his own un-official, t-party response to the President`s address.....

And to the Stossel`s of the world.....we already have mechanisms in place,that let the "market decide" what it is we`re going to accept and reject in America, like social media boycotts and online petitions and other opinion changers ....no thanks to you.

Isn`t it ironic that the very people most apposed to the successful social media boycotts,republicans,are the one`s suggesting they replace the civil rights act?[8|]



JeffBC -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 9:50:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Their "let the market decide" nonsense, as to how best to deal with open discrimination, is foolish at best and immoral at worst.They know this....and what it is they`re suggesting.....

I'd be so tempted to believe you but that's the whole gig with libertarians... They believe in economic warfare but no other kind. So "let the market decide" is their chosen field of contest. They KNOW such a thing is foolish at best and immoral at worst... and this is one of the smaller ways that'd be true.

I agree with you though. I was looking at Ron earlier and the conclusion I came to is that it didn't really matter why you wanted to enslave humanity. The fact that you do is reprehensible enough. Rand is simply a chip off the ol' block.

PS: I don't really care what ticket they come under. I just care what philosophy they espouse.



muhly22222 -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 10:06:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

As always with a story like this, the question arises: Were these just two isolated loons, or were they saying what others were thinking?


Does it really matter that much?

That they are all in the same party as the loons tells its own story doesn't it?


Um...no.

There are plenty of loons in both major parties. Eco-terrorists (who fall on the liberal side of the spectrum), for instance, could also be considered loons ("eco-terrorists" being individuals who espouse violence against others' property in the name of protecting the environment). And that's just one example.



Owner59 -> RE: A Lively Moment at CPAC: Slavery = Food + Shelter (3/16/2013 10:11:19 AM)

Is there any wonder why they`re a fringe party?


They seem harmless.The ones I know personally don`t like republicans/conservatives or their attempts to co-opt the libertarian movement.


Ron Paul held a counter convention during and next to the RNC national convention in '08' , after being abused and shunned by party elites and foxnoise.


That was the real alternative/t-party movement but after President Obama`s victory....the extreme aliments of the old gop co-opted(with corporate money)the t-party movement and brand,pretending to be a grass roots non-partisan group.......when is was just the feckless Dick Army and his lobbyist buddies all along.


Now Rand seems to be to new fresh face of the tees and he seems to be loving it....



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