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How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/16/2013 9:46:42 PM   
Lilly425


Posts: 19
Joined: 11/3/2012
Status: offline 		Not sure if I can express my question clearly, but I’ll give it my best shot.

In most areas of my life (professional, parenting, etc.) my competency and success is dependent on my ability to be in control and influence others to do what I want or need them to do. My interest in sexual submission is the idea that having a time, place, and person to whom I can release control and lead me to do as they please is exciting for me. I still struggle, however, with the ideas that have been ingrained in me that I shouldn’t be too “easy” or too accommodating in a relationship – that I should play “hard to get” because men want a challenge. I’m in the very early stages of a relationship with a man/Dom whom I like very much and want to please. He hasn’t asked me to do anything that I’ve been too uncomfortable with so I haven’t felt the need or desire to “challenge” him or push back on anything he’s asked. My concern is that he’ll get bored with me if I always do as he asks so willingly. I don’t want to create artificial challenge but I also don’t want him to lose interest.

In the end, I realize it is all about compatibility; however, in the meantime I’m curious to hear from other Doms as to how you feel about your sub willingly doing as asked with little to no challenge. Does this get boring for you? Do you want her/him to challenge you on the simple things, or if you wanted challenge, would you just ask for something that you know wasn’t as comfortable for her/him? Just interested in how the Dom mind works! :) Thanks.
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/16/2013 10:01:55 PM   
TwoHeartsBeatOne


Posts: 479
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		Hi Lilly,

Disclosure - I was a submissive and am now a brand new Domme. That has been my BDSM journey, so far. So, I'm not an experienced Dom/me who can answer from that perspective. But, here's mine...

There's a lot of self-awareness, self-acceptance and growth, to be gained in BDSM relationships. I think it has to do with the heavy requirement for consistent communication. So, as I read your questions, other questions came to mind.

Imagine a mirror image of your questions:

"Do I want to be a submissive who challenges authority or boundaries?"

"Do I know why I want or need this?"

"Do I get easily bored and need to have that addressed in some way in my D/s relationship?"

"Do I want to be asked to do that which may feel uncomfortable for me to do?"

I think that if you know the answers to these questions, then you have a lot to talk about with your Dom. I would hope that any loving Dom would want, if not expect, for you to come to him with these thoughts.

Whatever you choose, I wish you both all the best.

< Message edited by TwoHeartsBeatOne -- 3/16/2013 10:05:24 PM >

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/16/2013 11:19:43 PM   
Aubrik


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/24/2012
Status: offline 		Hi Lilly, I know quite a few people in D/s relationships, it varies to a degree with each relationship. For example one of my best friends has a sub that I call very bratty and I would not accept the way she acts, or pushes the boundries on the rules and guidelines he has set for her, but he enjoys the challenge of staying on top of her and keeping her in line. On the other side of the coin I have a friend that is a sub, that if he delays even for a few seconds when given a command by his mistress he is punished, and feels terrible for letting her down. In my current relationship we are still in the beggining stages of training so there is some challenges without her realizing it, and it is a 50/50 mix for me personally. The challenge can be interesting but it can also be frustrating at times. My best advice would be to talk to him about how you are currently feeling and see how he feels as well. Communication is the most important thing not only in a bdsm relationship but in any relationship IMHO.

Aub

(in reply to TwoHeartsBeatOne)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 12:29:08 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I make this pretty simple. You either want to submit or you don't. I'm not here for challenges, yadda, yadda. This is supposedly what we want in this dynamic. I don't screw around and say that I want to fall short in Dominating and I just want somebody else to control what is happening. Why should I ask less from the person who is supposed to be submitting?

No, I don't get bored with a person's obedience. I strive for it.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Aubrik)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 12:49:26 AM   
MadameM4U


Posts: 62
Joined: 4/23/2012
Status: offline 		I totally agree with LadyPact's post.

If someone isn't willing to accept my authority they need to move on down the road. Now of course, my submissive would only become my submissive after getting comfortable enough with me to trust me and accept my authority in the relationship. As a manager in the corporate world my philosophy is "if you don't want to do your job, I will find someone else who will". I feel the same way about the submissive with whom I am in a relationship. The unquestioning obedience of my sub is my ultimate joy.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 12:53:03 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lilly425
My concern is that he’ll get bored with me if I always do as he asks so willingly. I don’t want to create artificial challenge but I also don’t want him to lose interest.


Darling, you doing everything he asks willingly is exactly what 99% of the D-typs I've personally seen/met want 99% of the time.

Most of the times when problems around D/s relationships start, it's because the s-type doesn't want to do everything the D-type ask willingly all the time.

Talk to him, ask him how he feels about it. My bet is that he's very happy with things as they are.
And keep in mind that the type of submission you're describing (the s-type actually WANTING to submit willingly) is exactly that which I see as the submission most sought after.

ETA:

If you do what he wants willingly, it's HIS fault if he gets bored/loses interest. After all, if you willingly submit, he doesn't need the excuse of you being disobedient to do what he wants, he can just do it anyways. If he wants to play/spank you/mess with you, he doesn't need to wait for you to be "trouble" if you're already willingly submitting to him doing what he wants.
So if he can do whatever he wants... why would he get bored?

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/17/2013 12:56:03 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 3:55:41 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lilly425
I still struggle, however, with the ideas that have been ingrained in me that I shouldn’t be too “easy” or too accommodating in a relationship – that I should play “hard to get” because men want a challenge.

Maybe it's just me, but within a few weeks of leaving my parents' home, life presented me with challenges aplenty. For most of us, as we get older, these challenges get bigger, and harder to surmount. Sick children, job layoffs, death of loved ones. It's good to have a team member who is 100% on your side, to deal with the things that are genuinely challenging.

"You don't get to have sex tonight even though I want you to" seems, in comparison, to be less of a "challenge" and more like penny-ante bullshit.

Withholding intimacy for artificial reasons isn't healthy in vanilla. I don't see why your partner being dominant (or male) makes any difference to the question you are asking. Unless the two of you are fuckbuddies, not boyfriend/girlfriend type material. If you have no investment in each other outside the bedroom, then you might have a valid concern. But if you're interested in building a team, a united front against the world, whether it's for six months or sixty years, why not act as though you're both playing on the same side?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 5:24:38 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lilly425
in the meantime I’m curious to hear from other Doms as to how you feel about your sub willingly doing as asked with little to no challenge. Does this get boring for you? Do you want her/him to challenge you on the simple things, or if you wanted challenge, would you just ask for something that you know wasn’t as comfortable for her/him?

This whole thing is not a game to me. It is life... my life and Carol's life. I do not treat it as some sort of amusement ride because there are real and serious consequences to the decisions I make. We aren't playing at some scene... not in the bedroom and certainly not out of it. So your entire thought pattern makes little to no sense. Here's an analogy. If I was hurtling down the road at 100mph on a twisty and turny road I want the fucking car to turn when I turn the steering wheel. I do not want it to "challenge" me because doing so will get me (and the car) dead. I want it to behave in a predictable and orderly fashion because anything else would be suicidal. I want to own a human being not play at owning one.

Insofar as challenging her, yes, I stretch her preconceived notions (we don't deal in limits & boundaries) when I think such things are relevant. For the most part real life seems to offer up plenty of opportunities for this although given how broad those boundaries are getting I occasionally need to manufacture something. In these situations I do not expect rebellion. I expect her to submit.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 5:33:19 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Excellent posts by LP and RedMagic.

Not having a submissive challenge me isn't boring; if we click physically, intellectually, morally, and can make each other laugh and smile, then your submission is the cherry on top, not your being a challenge.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 5:47:24 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Fast reply

All relationships have challenges. I've certainly 'challenged' my husband at times. Coming up for seven years of marriage now and I still question my role at times and struggle with whether it's 'right' for me to be submissive. I have emotional ups and downs. I have big ambitions and dreams for life - moreso than him - which present challenges on our time and our finances. Sometimes we argue or get crabby with each other.

There have been many challenges. The challenge of figuring out what level of management works for us or whether or not a punishment dynamic is right. The challenge of visa applications and international moving. The challenge of parenthood. The challenge of a couple of drastic changes in our income. And yes, some challenges have been because of me panicking or reacting badly in terms of our D/s dynamic. I've told the story so many times I won't go into it again, but when we started out I was very young and very unrealistic in my expectations. I pushed back sometimes and other times I would cry my eyes out because I wasn't measuring up to how I imagined a perfect sub would be. Challenging? Hell yes.

But all of these challenges were organic challenges that arose naturally. At no point was I intentionally and deliberately putting road blocks in place or making him work for the privilege of my submission. Even on the occasions where I actively disobeyed, it was coming from my own immature emotional and communication skills, unforseen emotional triggers, unusual stress or whatever. I never tried to catch him out. I suppose what I'm saying is that challenges aren't a bad thing, but only when we are facing them together, as a team. In my opinion it's a bad idea to set out to test or push back at your partner, because that sets up an adversarial relationship, instead of a 'you and me can do anything' relationship.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 5:51:03 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lilly425
He hasn’t asked me to do anything that I’ve been too uncomfortable with so I haven’t felt the need or desire to “challenge” him or push back on anything he’s asked. My concern is that he’ll get bored with me if I always do as he asks so willingly. I don’t want to create artificial challenge but I also don’t want him to lose interest.



Sorry had to reply again to add to this. If you start challenging him on things that you'd actually be quite happy to do, you're playing a risky game. If the two of you are in the habit of you refusing and having him 'force' you into things or crack the whip, then one day he demands something which DOES disturb you, you've set up the expectation that this is just part of the game. I can see that ending in tears. I just think challenging him for the sake of challenge is setting up a barrier to communication in the long run.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 6:09:52 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
Sorry had to reply again to add to this. If you start challenging him on things that you'd actually be quite happy to do, you're playing a risky game. If the two of you are in the habit of you refusing and having him 'force' you into things or crack the whip, then one day he demands something which DOES disturb you, you've set up the expectation that this is just part of the game. I can see that ending in tears. I just think challenging him for the sake of challenge is setting up a barrier to communication in the long run.

I'm glad you wrote this Athena. One of the things I'm routinely grateful for is that Carol does not lie to me. So when I get feedback from her that says, "This is hard" I can just take it on face value that it's hard and adjust my plans accordingly. I don't need to go into some weird mental game trying to figure out what I should do with dubious feedback.

It's worth noting, however, that I think the "rules" are entirely different for the sexual D/s camp. If the goal is not to "live a happy life" but rather to "recreate some hot scene" then everything's going to change. An entire part of the harlequin romance fantasy is that bit where she futilely beats her hands against his chest before helplessly submitting. So if we're recreating steamy romance scenes then resistance is going to be almost mandatory. There's a world of difference between:

He scowls at her sternly as she cringes on the floor in front of him then grabs her by the hair pulling her mouth to his cock. "Don't bite bitch or you'll regret it."

and

Hey Honey, when you're done with those paint strokes put down the brush and come on over here. I want a blow job.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/17/2013 6:10:12 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 8:18:36 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master requires that I do as told, no questions asked. He doesn't want challenge. Neither of us do. It makes life complicated and way too much drama. I guess one could say we like our "boring" lives.



_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 8:37:21 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
At no point was I intentionally and deliberately putting road blocks in place or making him work for the privilege of my submission. Even on the occasions where I actively disobeyed, it was coming from my own immature emotional and communication skills, unforseen emotional triggers, unusual stress or whatever.


This is pretty much our relationship, with one caveat: I have challenged him when I think something will go wrong or I think he has behaved poorly (which we all do sometimes).


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 8:56:02 AM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lilly425
I’m in the very early stages of a relationship with a man/Dom whom I like very much and want to please.
I don’t want to create artificial challenge but I also don’t want him to lose interest.

I think if you start spending most of your energy on finding ways to challenge him, you will soon lose
focus on your initial desire of wanting to please him, which could lead to you losing interest.
Challenge yourself to remain authentic in your desire to be pleasing to him. No rocket science is required.

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to Lilly425)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 8:59:51 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		I'm too new to offer much in answer to your (fantastic) question. But being new, I'm not far removed from the vanilla relationship world, and the people who have posted such rich answers to you above are all very far removed from the vanilla world.
Your concern is an entirely valid one in the vanilla arena. In my opinion and experience, vanilla men do quickly become bored without challenges and resistance, artificial or organic.
The good news for us is that from what I have seen thus far, dominant men differ dramatically from vanilla men in that they DON'T get bored with our desire to submit; they DON'T want resistance and challenge (except in the scenarios Jeff describes). I regard this as really good news, and a great relief from having to play what I always thought was a stupid lose-lose game.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 9:07:42 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I try to orient myself towards pleasing and being agreeable. I think it's the dominant's place to challenge me - my limits, my boundaries, that sort of thing.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 9:12:14 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
This is pretty much our relationship, with one caveat: I have challenged him when I think something will go wrong or I think he has behaved poorly (which we all do sometimes).

*nods* Carol just recently said to me, "We're drifting and you're the guy with your hand on the tiller. You need to do your job." She was right. But that's not the sort of thing the OP was talking about.

The more I think on it the more I'm unsurprised that the lifestyle couples are pretty consistent on taking a non-kinky, non-fun view of this. I just think that there's room in the world for the "let's recreate a hot scene" viewpoint also. I suspect it's there that this whole manufactured resistance thing makes so much more sense. I think what the OP needs to do is figure out which camp her Dom is in and which camp she is in.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 9:24:02 AM   
EligibleOwner


Posts: 51
Joined: 10/16/2009
From: London
Status: offline 		Gosh, some of the replies on this thread really make me feel "at home"! I'm not interested in being challenged - that's what's boring. In contrast, I can't imagine ever being bored by a woman's submission. I never feel like that, and am sure I never will be.

I actually think the sort of relationship I need and want would seem quite boring to a lot of people. To use Jeff's words, I like things to be "predictable and orderly", for my decisions to be accepted and my instructions obeyed. Most of this is very simple stuff - I want her on her feet when she's told to stand, heading for the kitchen when told to wash up, and looking for her book when told to read. I want it to be predictable for her, too: I'm not interested in telling her to do strange new things out of the blue.

I do expect there to be problems - that she'll displease me sometimes - and I do want and expect to put mental and physical energy into overcoming those problems. I don't think I'm lazy. But as Athena said, what I'm looking for is the feeling that we're on the same side. She should want me to set her high standards, and to enforce them, and she should want to improve. If a woman's like that, I'll be intensely interested in her, and in taking an ever deeper, closer, more controlling interest in her.

You could say it's like wanting to lead a woman in a dance, or to coach her. Or, it's like wanting to conduct or compose for a great soprano or to write for or direct a great actress or ballerina. If she wants to resist what I'm doing or to fight my ideas, how could that be interesting?

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: How much challenge do you enjoy from a sub? - 3/17/2013 9:57:20 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
I just think that there's room in the world for the "let's recreate a hot scene" viewpoint also. I suspect it's there that this whole manufactured resistance thing makes so much more sense.


I get cheeky and playful, but we both know that there's a time and place for it.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)
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