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Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 3:46:11 AM

LadyPact

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Lately, it seems to Me, there's a lot of throwing about of a particular straw man. It's this bit about 'oh, we kinky people have always faced hostility from non kinky people' and it's used as some sort of flag that means I'm supposed to get this "us vrs them" kind of mentality going on.

Sorry, but I just don't have that kind of lack of faith in your average, ordinary non kinky person. I don't consider the occasional raised eyebrow to be oppression and there ain't no burning crosses on My yard. I've never been denied or lost a job due to kink. (Probably because I don't take My kink into the workplace.) I've never been ostracized from My family. Most of My friends are the type of friends that are more likely to be curious than to criticize.

I understand that My experience isn't the only one out there. For those of you who have experienced other things, I really do emphasize. I'll even step up and say that I'm sorry you had a bad experience with an asshat. Maybe even several asshats. Still, that doesn't make Me see the entire vanilla population as full of asshats and I'm not going to blame the many for the idiotic actions of a few.

I just don't have an 'us vrs them' mentality when it comes to vanilla folks. It's not some banner for waving just because two kinky people don't agree on something. Kinky folks haven't gone through *nearly* the struggles that the LGBT community has. Frankly, some people need to knock that crap off.

No question, but I would like to think this post will trigger some discussion on the us vrs them mentality.

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Post #: 1

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 4:03:59 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

Most of My friends are the type of friends that are more likely to be curious than to criticize.

Mine too.

When I inadvertently outed myself as a CollarMe member at work a few years ago it was no big deal.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 4:09:50 AM

LadyPact

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Most of My co-workers who knew were the type to ask Me what I had done over the weekend. I didn't exactly prance Myself into HR to proclaim My kinkiness. My boss knew. The people who worked under Me knew. I even had a "Christian Clause" (no kidding, that's what it was called) in My contract.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 4:31:39 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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As you know LadyPact, I kind of am "us" and "them" at the same time. So my experience may well be different. But I read many of the war stories you're talking about on these boards and I just cannot relate. Ordering for Carol at a restaurant? That is a perfectly vanilla and gentlemanly thing to do. The closest we come to some sort of condemnation is a particularly inexperienced waitress might glance at Carol to confirm she wants what I ordered. I've dragged Carol around town on a leash and been dealt with in a mature and friendly fashion. In part, truthfully, I suspect this has to do with my personality. It would've taken a more dominant one to challenge me (and be inclined to challenge me).

However, I just had a friend fired from her job. There's solid reason to believe it was simply because she was listed as a kink aware professional.

Overall, I think I receive much more condemnation for my political beliefs than I do for the way I run my marriage.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 6:10:00 AM

EligibleOwner

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From: London
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I agree. I don't think people, if you take them as individuals in their ordinary lives, are hostile to us. I've never faced any hostility (but then, I'm as private as I can be about this).

I do think people are sometimes treated badly because of their private lives, though, especially in an employment context, or by the press here in Britain (this doesn't just affect kinky people, but includes us). You can be "outed" and lose a job and career - even though most of the managers and readers would probably not take such harsh action if they didn't feel a need to conform to a sort of public or workplace censoriousness. I know personally of one case of a person losing his job because he was outed as cross-dressing at home. Honestly. There was just enough contact with young people in his job for his employers to freak out about "risk".

What I'd like is for that to go away, and for people in management and public situations to think in the same way they do as individuals - that what people do in their private lives is no one else's business as long as no one gets hurt (and I suppose, that there isn't a serious basis for thinking someone might be a risk to others).

I don't have a problem with BDSM activism, although I do worry that sometimes "we" attach ourselves to causes, like extreme porn a few years back here in Britain, which might actually work against us in most tolerant people's minds. I'm not really interested in campaigning for us all to be out and "in people's faces". I do think it's worth us being concerned about privacy generally (not just for us), and against the hounding of people whose private lives are exposed against their wishes.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 5

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 6:21:50 AM

lizi

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I tell hardly anyone about my interest in kink, however the few times it has come out I've not suffered any negative repercussions at all or noticed anyone being critical of me. I"ve never had any experience with an us vs them mentality when it comes to my private life.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 6

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 6:51:52 AM

Kaliko

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Joined: 9/25/2010
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While I personally don't experience hostility, there is the potential for job loss or other types of repercussions in the workplace and community that will be a long, long time in going away, if ever. Any type of job or volunteer position that involves working with minors will always be judged. And rightly so. However, several things would have to happen, I think, to remove all fear of job loss as a result of being outed.

1. All parents of all children would have to be satisfied that kinky people are not sickos. Mmm...we'll have to give that some time. Until then, the moment that someone learns that, say, a teacher is on a kink site (and identifiable), moral outrage on behalf of the children will ensue and disciplinary action will take place. Why disciplinary? Because there is probably a policy that specifically states that those employees must keep up a certain decorum, even outside the workplace. That policy was likely adopted prior to regular internet use, and probably refers also to behavior in places like bars and other social events. Those who work with children will be scrutinized more harshly, and...like I said...I believe they should be.

2. But let's say that everyone in town is kink-friendly and no parent ever objects to their child being taught by a leather-wearing, whip-bearing, sharp-tongued sadist. Great! But...if the students have seen a picture of their history teacher bent naked over a man's knee getting spanked, chances are they will talk about nothing else for some time. Her effectiveness as a teacher is diminished if students are snickering behind her back, and the educational environment is substantially disrupted. If parents aren't upset about the sexual activities of the teacher, they should be upset about that.

For the record, I'm not a teacher, and these types of circumstances apply to more than just teachers. Anybody in a leadership type position with direct contact with young people needs to be just a little more careful about what they say and do. Is that hostility? I don't think it is. But it does perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude; a need to keep secret; a worry that "they" will find out. And that fear can cause some to view "them" - vanilla folks - as hostile.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 3/20/2013 7:15:03 AM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 7:49:03 AM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
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I'm sure there are people out there that strongly disapprove, but some people are just wired that way. There's many things I don't understand, like mountain climbing, but I don't judge an individual on their likes or dislikes if they're not hurting anyone.
I've never ran into it, but I also don't share personal details of my life with others. Apparently, I give off some sort of kinky vibe anyway.

Just like there are judgmental people in the vanilla side, there definitely seems to be a bit on the kinky side also - towards vanilla and those not appearing to be "true" kinksters. Those individuals are no more different to me than the judgemental vanilla - just have different likes.

If someone feels there's some sort of war going on between two groups, I just tend to believe that person is a little melodramatic and needs some sort of conflict in their life.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 8

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 8:07:02 AM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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I've personally never experienced the us vs them, either. But, then again, I'm a person that holds the view that what happens in my bedroom is no one else's business.

I do have one friend that was fired when his profile was sent to his employer. Sadly, the person who mailed that profile was someone in the kink community.

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Post #: 9

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 9:08:32 AM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

I frankly have never felt it was an us versus them secret society either. I hear that particular argument and I instantly begin to wonder if there isnt a bit of "oh, Im such a special snowflake because Im kinky" mentality in the mind of the one saying it.

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Post #: 10

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 10:05:30 AM

breagha

Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
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Other than the instance i posted about with my friends being critical i have not had any issues with it being us vs. them. Even in that instance i don't see that it was about my kink rather than about their concern for me and my safety because they didn't understand. ( as an update things are much better now with them after conversations where they asked many questions... i used much of the advice that was given to me from my post and i am very grateful for all of the help )

i can see that there may be a general "taboo" outlook on what it is we do. Some groups may find it harder to swallow than others. i haven't seen first hand an out right us vs. them mentality. just intolerance of personal choice. in my opinion, intolerance usually goes hand in hand with incomprehension or inability to understand.

edited for grammar ( typos seem to be my forte )

< Message edited by breagha -- 3/20/2013 10:10:34 AM >

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 10:12:58 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

Well I like a quiet life these days, I don't flaunt my
personal stuff in public, but then again my "kinks"
are rather innocuous anyway, so I don't feel like I'm
hiding anything, just that I like my privacy more
than most I guess.

I'm not involved in the community because I don't
really see the need for me to be, I don't look for any
solidarity because I don't need it.

And anyway, I'm not sure bdsm has ever had the
same kind of trials as what say, homosexuality has
had... On the whole, I see BDSM (especially now
with 50 shades etc) being as socially acceptable as
anyone could reasonable wish for.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 10:49:48 AM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
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From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
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I've encountered very little asshattiness from people about my kink. There was some fleeting asshattiness from my sister but that went away soon. Other than that, it was when someone accidentally found out and she didn't like me anyway, so it just added fuel to her fire. lol As for the workplace, I always always kept it under wraps because the Nursing Board has a moral turpitude clause.

NBMG

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 11:05:11 AM

Exidor

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*Now* it's close enough to mainstream to be considered a harmless quirk.

30 years ago, you could easily have been judged mentally ill and involuntarily "treated", or simply jailed for "abuse" or one of the sodomy laws still in effect back then.

Being outed wasn't just a social gaffe; it could massively change your life for the worse, forever.

(in reply to NiceButMeanGirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 11:12:33 AM

UnholyBear

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In my local area, there is somewhat of a "us against them" mentality and where I found it quite blatant is between the BDSM and the Bear communities. It is more obvious in the larger areas such as Toronto or Ottawa and there is a huge rift between the two. The sad part is that mentality has slowly made it's way where I am and I see the subtle stirrings and a rift forming here; especially since I am a part of both communities.

What I don't understand is why it has to happen in the first place?

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 11:50:09 AM

Charles6682

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From: Saint Pete,FL
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I agree LadyPact.I've honestly never really had a problem with "vanilla people" knowing about who I am.Actually,theres alot of people who will tell me secretly they are into the same stuff,they just can't be as open for any number of reasons.Other than a few minor smartass comments before,its not really a problem for me.

Outside of this "Lifestyle",I am as "vanilla" as the next person.I don't wear my "fetish" on my sleeve.Theres lots of things I like to do outside of BDSM.The fact that I live near the Gulf of Mexico Beaches is a huge plus.I love hanging out by the Beach,listening to some music at a "Beach Bar" and watch the sun set over the Gulf of Mexico.Truly beautiful.Point is,I am as much kinky as I am vanilla.There are lots of things I enjoy outside of BDSM.I guess you could call it a "Vanilla Swirl""Alittle mixture of vanilla and D/s.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 12:04:47 PM

sexyred1

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I have not any major problems, simply because I don't run around discussing my sex life with people.

Anyone, a future employer, etc. can find things out about people, so I understand not posting photos, etc. on a kink site. I sometimes am concerned about that myself, but not enough to take my photos down.

I do not tell my family about my sex life and I have stopped sharing details with old friends and really do not go into detail with new vanilla friends. That is one area in which I have received criticism, and mostly because those vanilla friends blame the kink on the issues in my last relationship, because that was easier for them to blame than put the blame on the fact that my ex and I were not compatible in any area other than sex/kink.

I just find that the older I get, the less I should share with people about my intimate life.

(in reply to Charles6682)

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 5:40:43 PM

Moonlightmaddnes

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I have mostly had the view that what I do with my husband in our bedroom was no one elses business, but this thread reminded me of a topic on my parenting board I go on. Most are very vocal about if your husband so much is a jerk then you are being abused so no way do I even bring up things going on in our room even in the threads about sex that pop up. Well someone brought up domestic spanking and I did an eye roll of oh god here we go. Well by the end most had said that what people do in their own room is their business and the only sites that made them uncomfortable are the ones where it did seem that they were just giving an excuse for a husband to abuse his wife and call it domestic discipline. The one site that was linked I had to agree it seemed more like an excuse for abuse especially when one woman was fearfully waiting for her husband to come home since she was going to get beat for not getting a bill paid before the place closed not knowing they were closing at noon that day instead of 5.

But anyways I was surprised at how most of the people there who are pretty uptight about a lot of relationship related topics were saying that some people liked that stuff and more power to them. Several said it was in no way abuse since it is all consensual unlike domestic abuse. I did not see any hostility at all.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 7:00:35 PM

NuevaVida

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I have never experienced any hostility, either. Then again, like others who have posted here, I tend to be pretty private about the details of my relationship.

Mostly I encounter ignorance about BDSM as opposed to hostility. Just today I heard some women at work talking about 50 shades and giggling over it, talking about having to fan themselves, asking if people really DO that?

In any case, those I *have* shared my kinkiness with just take it in stride, and mostly ask a few questions out of interest.

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/20/2013 7:40:26 PM

kdsub

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Maybe I am wrong…or maybe it is an inner thought I don’t think I am feeling, because I don't give a crap, but…I believe deep down some attracted to this lifestyle feel they are doing something wrong or…nasty. They are embarrassed when they are found out and self-conscious…always thinking the so called vanilla people are looking down their noses judging them.

Butch

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Post #: 20

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