RE: Muslim thugs (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 5:35:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
This seems to me to be the critical point in this discussion. If people choose to assert that these levels of barbarism are unique to Islam, then they need to establish:
1. That it is only found in Islamic regions and nowhere else; and
2. That it is found in all Islamic regions.


It seems to me that's not the critical point in this discussion. That Wants isn't making that claim ergo the repeated calls of strawman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The only explanations I can see involve prejudice or an ideological imperative (or both).


Personally I'm having trouble understanding why some are having so much trouble comprehending what Want's is saying, the only explanations I can see involves the level of paranoia where people end up tilting at windmills.



GotSteel -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 5:43:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
IF as you claim, you are not asserting this issue to be a uniquely Islamic issue, the using the term "Islamic/Muslim thugs" is at best misleading and at worst racist. And if you aren't asserting this, then what exactly are you asserting?


My understanding is that if you take this quote and tweak it very slightly you get Wants position:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
The culture and politics of the ME (as well as Indonesia and other places around the world) act to maintain the gender power imbalance at levels that were common in the middle ages in Europe.

Here's the alteration:

The culture, religion and politics of the ME (as well as Indonesia and other places around the world) act to maintain the gender power imbalance at levels that were common in the middle ages in Europe.



WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 7:26:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
These points seem to me so obvious they are almost self evident. These might appear to be minor points. But sloppy generalisations such as these form the basis for racist thinking. Therefore they are quite important, especially in view of the rampant Islamophobia I see here on these boards, and currently prevalent in the US and other parts of the West. If you are concerned to avoid the charge of racism, it's best to be sensitive to this kind of sloppy generalisation. If you are concerned to be accurate, then you will avoid this basic error.

nah tha US isnt an islamophobic nation nor is tha rest of tha west. in tha US way more violence is directed at jews than muslims wit christians not too far behind. doubt it? well just look at tha yearly official fbi stats http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/tables/table-1-incidents-offenses-victims-and-known-offenders-by-bias-motivation-2010.xls


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
IF as you claim, you are not asserting this issue to be a uniquely Islamic issue, the using the term "Islamic/Muslim thugs" is at best misleading and at worst racist. And if you aren't asserting this, then what exactly are you asserting?

im juts claiming what im claiming. nuthing more, nuthing less & none of yr bs. i dont like tha way ya restarted an old debate by twisting up tha context. do ya wish to come outta tha closet & call me a "racist" or not? seems you did already but by mincing yr words by playing games. i dont want to bother replying to yr other points til then.



WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 7:59:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
This seems to me to be the critical point in this discussion. If people choose to assert that these levels of barbarism are unique to Islam, then they need to establish:
1. That it is only found in Islamic regions and nowhere else; and
2. That it is found in all Islamic regions.

It seems to me that's not the critical point in this discussion. That Wants isn't making that claim ergo the repeated calls of strawman.

reckon tweaks fixed up her all r nuthing argument after we got into indonesia http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4410339

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The only explanations I can see involve prejudice or an ideological imperative (or both).

Personally I'm having trouble understanding why some are having so much trouble comprehending what Want's is saying, the only explanations I can see involves the level of paranoia where people end up tilting at windmills.

the freakout at just saying questions can be asked of a culture & its religion if some sorts of violence r worse is kinda funny but i guess thats to shut down any sorta discussion. wtf are they afraid of? [8|]



WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 8:31:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
These points seem to me so obvious they are almost self evident. These might appear to be minor points. But sloppy generalisations such as these form the basis for racist thinking. Therefore they are quite important, especially in view of the rampant Islamophobia I see here on these boards, and currently prevalent in the US and other parts of the West. If you are concerned to avoid the charge of racism, it's best to be sensitive to this kind of sloppy generalisation. If you are concerned to be accurate, then you will avoid this basic error.

nah tha US isnt an islamophobic nation nor is tha rest of tha west. in tha US way more violence is directed at jews than muslims wit christians not too far behind. doubt it? well just look at tha yearly official fbi stats http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/tables/table-1-incidents-offenses-victims-and-known-offenders-by-bias-motivation-2010.xls


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
IF as you claim, you are not asserting this issue to be a uniquely Islamic issue, the using the term "Islamic/Muslim thugs" is at best misleading and at worst racist. And if you aren't asserting this, then what exactly are you asserting?

i just said what i said. nuthing more, nuthing less & none of yr bs. i dont like tha way ya restarted a week old debate by fucking wit tha context. do ya not have enough to argue bout on cm already? do ya wish to come out & call me a "racist" or not? seems you did already but by mincing yr words wit games. i dont want to bother answering yr other points until then.



Politesub53 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 11:56:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what does that say about your motiviations that your previous strawman post didnt..

What was the strawman? I'm asking because I don't see it. Please show me where it is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
And you also failed to mention the abhorrently low prosecution and conviction rates for rape in Bangladesh. What does that say about your motivations?

Silly me huh, I didnt mention any conviction figures in the link because...........There were none.


I didn't say anything about that one link. I'm talking about the due diligence you should have done, you know making sure it's not just a law in name only. Instead of going off half cocked and calling somebody a bigot over something where you don't actually know what you're talking about.


Due diligence........Its a chat forum ffs not the UN. You can turn a blind eye to bigotry if you wish, but I refuse to do so.



GotSteel -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 7:22:42 PM)

Your position is the most narrow-minded piece of bigotry I've heard in this thread.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 9:19:11 PM)

Religion in all its forms is a human construct coming directly from culture and politics. There is no God/Yaweh/Allah, people created deities and scripture to rationalize their wants and behaviors.

Women didn't get the crappy end of the social stick because a God made it so, they were put in a subordinate social position by male politicians, and male dominated cultures.

Improving the lot of women doesn't depend on a 'good religion' rescuing them, it depends on the culture and the society making changes in norms and values, at which point the religion shifts its dogma.

You've played this 'tweaking' game of sophomoric false attribution followed by 'What? What? I don't understand' feigned naivete way too many times to pull it off with a straight face now.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
The culture, religion and politics of the ME (as well as Indonesia and other places around the world) act to maintain the gender power imbalance at levels that were common in the middle ages in Europe.




tweakabelle -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/2/2013 11:49:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Religion in all its forms is a human construct coming directly from culture and politics. There is no God/Yaweh/Allah, people created deities and scripture to rationalize their wants and behaviors.

Women didn't get the crappy end of the social stick because a God made it so, they were put in a subordinate social position by male politicians, and male dominated cultures.

Improving the lot of women doesn't depend on a 'good religion' rescuing them, it depends on the culture and the society making changes in norms and values, at which point the religion shifts its dogma.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
The culture, religion and politics of the ME (as well as Indonesia and other places around the world) act to maintain the gender power imbalance at levels that were common in the middle ages in Europe.



Yes. I have to add that I find it somewhat bemusing to note the contributions here from those on the Right, and the religious Right, who are trying to position themselves as stalwarts of womens' rights and freedoms in non-Western countries. A patently hypocritical position that glosses over the fact that advances in the status of women in Western societies has been fought tooth and nail, in every Western country that I am familiar with, by the Right wing of politics and the religious Right. That is the same Right that is currently busy trying to turn the clock back and remove many of the freedoms that women have won in many parts of the West. A position that fails to mention that such advances as have been achieved have occurred mainly in the last century or so as a direct result of the third wave feminist movement.

If these people are as concerned about womens' rights as they like to appear, then the place to begin is at home. There are ample grounds for concern about rape and violence against women and children here in the West. There is an awful lot more to be achieved before we can say that these issues have been resolved here in the West.

The best way we can help eliminate gender inequalities and violence against women and children in non-Western countries is to ensure that it is completely eradicated from our Western societies. Then we will have earned the right to tell others about the advantages of gender equality.



MrBukani -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 4:05:26 AM)

I don't think a lot of you get the point.
Yeah christian/catholics have done their share of violent abuse to women and many other matters.
But we stand here today... NOW.
And in general christians evolve with time, to better themselves and see their bible as a story and an example in figurative speech, of how to do good. You shouldnt read it as history although there are historical events happening and you should question the words into the reality of today.

Mohammed was a clever plotter who had 600 years of christian dogma and contradictions to contradict.
So in his time, it was a natural bestseller to the arabs. But they made one mistake. They said the whole koran is directly the word from Allah (wich is another lie cause he talked to Gabriel and Satan, not Allah).
So it can never be changed and it leaves little open to interpertation.
And that is where they will loose followers. It cannot progress into the future development of cultures. You can see Islam going backwards in the past centuries. And it will continue to do so. Christians did it in the dark ages. But in these fast changing times it is suicidal to go backwards. This is the curse of all prophets with good intentions, they are maimed by their barbaric hordes of frantic followers.



epiphiny43 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 4:25:58 AM)

What is the difference between the radical Islamic hard liners and the many US evangelical 'strict constructionists' who demand the whole country live as they interpret the Bible? And which evangelical of any cult doesn't see the Bible as pure revealed scripture, exactly the same as the doctrinaire Jihadist reveres the Koran? "Historical relativism" is hardly any more prevalent in many US churches than in Wahabi scripture lessons.
You mistake the lunatic fringe of Jihadist and Wahabi for the mainstream of modern intellectual Muslims and deny the many equally daft Evangelical Christians exist. Even Buddhists can go nuts. The mobs attacking Muslim stores and people in Sri Lanka this week are supposed to be followers of the most peaceful doctrine and teacher of all.



MrBukani -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 4:38:05 AM)

We can question a lot about the life of Jesus, we cannot question a single thing about Mohammed.
The only reality I see is Jesus preached a God of Love.
Mohammed preached a God of War and their peace of mind.



Politesub53 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 4:38:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Your position is the most narrow-minded piece of bigotry I've heard in this thread.


Are you really stupid enough to suggest speaking out on Islamophobia is bigotted ? If so, count me in. [8|]



ashjor911 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 4:56:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
so let's starve them until the bastards become civilized.


I hope that was the Spirit in the case of the white house VS Iran.


however, DS I would like it more if you refer to them as Thugs & not "Muslim Thugs".. you see there is thugs from all Religion "s" of the world... & you did not care about them ... only you cares about those "Muslim"... to make the big picture about "Muslims" is bad... like its not bad enough in the US.

where were you when you when the that girl was raped in India, you did not move to "starve" those "bastards"?..

PS: I don't care about them & I am not here to defend them or justify what they did, what they did was wrong & they should be punished for it, or if they was burned.. I really don't care.

what I care about is the dragging of a Religion into other stuff... no one said about "Mr.Sharon" & you know what he did in south of Lebanon in 82-84 ... no one called him a "Jewish-thug". or "al kataeb" & called them (Christian thugs).. & they did not rape just one .... they raped & killed 14,000.... & no one cares.


not here to hijack the topic ... just trying to make things clear for the OP.



WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 5:01:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The best way we can help eliminate gender inequalities and violence against women and children in non-Western countries is to ensure that it is completely eradicated from our Western societies. Then we will have earned the right to tell others about the advantages of gender equality.

yup thats right. just ignore all tha medieval barbaric treatment of girls in other cultures coz "gender equalities" aint "completely" perfect in tha west. hey tweaks when will ya thunk it will be ok for us westerners to say "hey you guys over there shouldnt be torturing girls for being raped"? reckon john wayne said it best in the searchers... "that'll be the day"



MrBukani -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 5:43:35 AM)

Difference is christian fundamentalists who believe the bible to the letter are a definite minority.
In Islam this is a must and so a majority if not all.
The big denominator in arab culture is their hot headed nature, from baking to long in the sun. And that is what they export around the world besides oil.
If they say circumcision is protection againt STD's, you have to question why would they need that?
Because they have harems? Because they like to be promiscues?
There is so much wrong with their reasoning it is baffling to see.
Yes muslim thugs outdo the christian thugs by lightyears these days.
Mohammed lived to be over sixty years old and he never learned to read or write?
Maybe it's because arabic is a bitch to learn. Who knows? But it is stupid as hell if you had 600 years of examples how the bible was forged and you make the same mistake again. Arabic writing in that time was not developed fully either wich implies another problem.

Is it 72 virgins or white raisins, they get in heaven.
The bitches want polygyny but no polyandry.
Fuck em. In the end it will be the women who will break this monopoly on lies.
Otherwise they will have to remain in chains to suffer at the hands of men.






ashjor911 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 6:13:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Difference is christian fundamentalists who believe the bible to the letter are a definite minority.
In Islam this is a must and so a majority if not all.
The big denominator in arab culture is their hot headed nature, from baking to long in the sun. And that is what they export around the world besides oil.
If they say circumcision is protection againt STD's, you have to question why would they need that?
Because they have harems? Because they like to be promiscues?
There is so much wrong with their reasoning it is baffling to see.
Yes muslim thugs outdo the christian thugs by lightyears these days.
Mohammed lived to be over sixty years old and he never learned to read or write?
Maybe it's because arabic is a bitch to learn. Who knows? But it is stupid as hell if you had 600 years of examples how the bible was forged and you make the same mistake again. Arabic writing in that time was not developed fully either wich implies another problem.

Is it 72 virgins or white raisins, they get in heaven.
The bitches want polygyny but no polyandry.
Fuck em. In the end it will be the women who will break this monopoly on lies.
Otherwise they will have to remain in chains to suffer at the hands of men.




I really hope the OP is Enjoying this as he reached his goal..
however to reply to MrBukani : I did not read not one simple line without an insult.. maybe its your nature or just the weather treating you the bad way.
maybe its just you or maybe its the whole propaganda issue you are dealing with..

yes ( Mohammed lived to be over sixty years old and he never learned to read or write ) but he has others to write for him, & he trusted them to write what he speak.
but why would you ask that? .. why? .... why would you bring up the "circumcision" thing ... is it just me or you are playing on the string of phobia?
I mean Jews circumcise .. & you did not care.... they came from the middle east , some of them are Arabs but you did not care either...
so let me ask you this ... why would you care about 72 or 100 virgin's in my dreams & try to judge someone by their beliefes to be wrong in your mind & look the other way about other stuff & other people.... why?
now in (Borma) thousands of Muslims (women men & children) are being slaughtered by the followers of Buddha & you look the other way saying ... well, its their fault they are MUSLIMS.



MrBukani -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 6:32:41 AM)

1 Mohammed trusted his scribes? thats mistake number one
2 Since arabic writing was not fully developed couldnt he have been a bit more clear?
3 He encourages learning but does not learn to read himself?
4 circumcision is related to the penis where this whole rape shit started, yes jews do it as well. Did I say thats ok?
circumcision is to make sure one will always see you are a jew or muslim. Great way to bind people to the faith. Cant grow my foreskin back, now can I? It is the people who do not want children to have free will. God told us we have free will. Jews catholics and muslims do not have free will to choose their religion. Is that clear enough for you?
5 Why would I look the other way? This is the way of mankind. According to the koran they can lie about their faith in order to protect themselves.
But that kinda becomes hard for men without foreskin right?[:D]



ashjor911 -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 7:18:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

1 Mohammed trusted his scribes? thats mistake number one
2 Since arabic writing was not fully developed couldnt he have been a bit more clear?
3 He encourages learning but does not learn to read himself?
4 circumcision is related to the penis where this whole rape shit started, yes jews do it as well. Did I say thats ok?
circumcision is to make sure one will always see you are a jew or muslim. Great way to bind people to the faith. Cant grow my foreskin back, now can I? It is the people who do not want children to have free will. God told us we have free will. Jews catholics and muslims do not have free will to choose their religion. Is that clear enough for you?
5 Why would I look the other way? This is the way of mankind. According to the koran they can lie about their faith in order to protect themselves.
But that kinda becomes hard for men without foreskin right?[:D]



1- why? don't you trust your own lawyer .. wife ... brother, father, mother, etc.... in Islam all Muslims are your brothers & sisters... its not a mistake... but if you see it like so then we wont have to argue anymore... its just me talking & you stay at what your mind say...!!
2- Arabic was developed at that time otherwise they wont call it a language, they added the dots ..... later people of that time can & did understand him & told the new generation what he said.
3- he could learned how to write & write on his own, but its his own miracle that its still ... till today untouched, in Koran.
4- I am sorry that people who did that to your penis did not ask your permission ... but do you think that they did not have "free will" on that matter about if they want to do it or not?
5- can you tell me where did the Koran tell them that? I mean maybe I am forgetting something here maybe you can remind me...!

6- Catholics, Muslims & Jews have free will... how many Catholics changed to Islam or to Judaism? how many of them now don't believe anymore?
how many of them changed their sex? I mean if you don't like your penis .. you still got free will to change it to a vagina .. you know its 2013 now



Lucylastic -> RE: Muslim thugs (4/3/2013 7:23:11 AM)


Sorry Ash...Hugglies, Im not responding to your post btw
This thread is getting so bigoted I think Im gonna throw up



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