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defiantbadgirl -> health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/22/2013 8:40:22 PM)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-insurers-warn-premiums-030100423.html

Why we need single-payer health care, not single-payer insurance:

1. Ability to control health care costs

2. Cut down on age discrimination in workplace (refusal to hire older people to keep health insurance premiums lower)

3. No more companies laying off workers or refusing to hire full-time because of health insurance

4. No insurance companies refusing to pay for lifesaving treatments to increase their profits

5. No people flooding emergency rooms in states that refuse to expand medicaid

6. No worry about paying for long term care (nursing home, home health aide, hospice, etc)

7. No worry about greedy health insurance companies jacking up premiums

8. No more wishing every day I had been born in another country (for me at least)







farglebargle -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/23/2013 6:28:50 AM)

Universal Medicare. Problem solved.




Owner59 -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/23/2013 8:15:32 AM)

We`ll cut them out of the loop...this "their way or the highway" shit has got to go...




Kana -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/23/2013 8:32:07 AM)

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-inside-times-cover-story-on-medical-bills/




LookieNoNookie -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/24/2013 6:44:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-insurers-warn-premiums-030100423.html

Why we need single-payer health care, not single-payer insurance:

1. Ability to control health care costs

Which does not come from having more people using health care, it comes from being innovative and getting rid of usory costs such as legal bleeding.


2. Cut down on age discrimination in workplace (refusal to hire older people to keep health insurance premiums lower)

No problem. Since older folks need more health care, we can just charge the young kids who have no money even more. Problem solved.

3. No more companies laying off workers or refusing to hire full-time because of health insurance

Health care costs have a nominal (but real) effect on those decisions. Simply, older folks tend to want to (rightly) get paid for their experience. Young people, by comparison, have less of that (experience) and therefore, 'cost" less. Until there are no other options, or those options appear the most economically palatable, health care costs will come in maybe 10th on the list.


4. No insurance companies refusing to pay for lifesaving treatments to increase their profits

Nice concept but ask yourself this....if you could buy a car and know that the final cost could never top 40 grand, that'd be a sweet deal because you know that for a monthly fee of say $650.00 a month, at some point, it'll never cost you a dime more. Now, consider the new rules for insurance companies....it never ends. There is no upper limit. Do you think that that same car would sell for a comfortable $650.00 a month? Uh.....no. Which means that insurance costs are going to rise exponentially over the next 5 - 10 years.

5. No people flooding emergency rooms in states that refuse to expand medicaid

People who can't afford medical care will still be around and they will be the poor, indigent and of course, the young who are going to live forever. They'll either pay the 2 grand or as in the case of the poor or indigent...not a dime. There will be fewer people flooding ER's, but the number will probably not fall by more than 15%.

6. No worry about paying for long term care (nursing home, home health aide, hospice, etc)

Not covered under ObamaCare.

7. No worry about greedy health insurance companies jacking up premiums

See above. It's just simple math.

8. No more wishing every day I had been born in another country (for me at least)

I'm glad as hell I was born here.....ObamaCare didn't change that at all.







LizDeluxe -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 6:37:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
8. No more wishing every day I had been born in another country (for me at least).


If I felt this way I would be packing. It's the one item on your list you have control over.




MrRodgers -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 7:43:04 AM)

Sorry cybersluts but once again, in the US the subject is not about health care but about money. All one needs to do is look at all of the sites that describe the systems in Japan, Germany, France and Canada.

Are they perfect ? No, no system is perfect...whatever that is but, all of those countries, they offer everything US patients have and more, all at a cost of about 1/2 what Americans pay and for over 90% of society...employed or not.

Until we get that pesky thing of capital knowing no limit (g...d) out of our health care system, we in the US will continue to pay twice as much and die 3-4 years younger.

One would think that the concept of adding the young who up until now, have been paying nothing and only use emergency services that others pay for and including (mandating) that they pay...the group gets larger and healthier that would reduce monthly premiums for the rest.

NOT in America. No siree...we are talking price-fixing and a huge windfall in profits under Obama care.

One wonders why Americans somehow still expect anything else.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 8:11:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Universal Medicare. Problem solved.


Universal Medicaid would be better since it covers long term care.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 8:28:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
8. No more wishing every day I had been born in another country (for me at least).


If I felt this way I would be packing. It's the one item on your list you have control over.


Is it really that easy to move to another country, be eligible to work there, and become a citizen or at least a permanent resident in order to be eligible for single-payer health care? Isn't a person required to have a specific degree or experience in specific areas the country is looking for?




DesideriScuri -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 8:59:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Sorry cybersluts but once again, in the US the subject is not about health care but about money. All one needs to do is look at all of the sites that describe the systems in Japan, Germany, France and Canada.
Are they perfect ? No, no system is perfect...whatever that is but, all of those countries, they offer everything US patients have and more, all at a cost of about 1/2 what Americans pay and for over 90% of society...employed or not.
Until we get that pesky thing of capital knowing no limit (g...d) out of our health care system, we in the US will continue to pay twice as much and die 3-4 years younger.
One would think that the concept of adding the young who up until now, have been paying nothing and only use emergency services that others pay for and including (mandating) that they pay...the group gets larger and healthier that would reduce monthly premiums for the rest.
NOT in America. No siree...we are talking price-fixing and a huge windfall in profits under Obama care.
One wonders why Americans somehow still expect anything else.


But, that's not what's happening, is it? Yes, the young/healthy are being forced to pay in, but without being able to deny someone based on their condition, that is not reducing the risks. Since insurance companies won't be allowed to charge premiums based on risk, the relatively healthy will end up being charged more than their actual risk category would be. If someone with cancer attempts to get insurance, he can't be denied, and he'll end up paying the same premium as a similarly aged person without any pre-existing conditions. Those at the lower end of the risk pool end up paying more than they would otherwise, and those at the higher end of the risk pool end up paying lower than they would. That's the whole basis of risk pools. But, when you end up with age being the main variable in premium determinations, you're going to shaft the majority. Insurance companies will still assess premiums based on risk, and lumping everyone into one pool isn't going to lower the overall risk of the pool, necessarily.

CDC ER Visit report (May 2010)
    quote:

    Key findings
    • Older adults (aged 75 and over), non-Hispanic black persons, poor persons, and persons with Medicaid coverage were more likely to have had at least one emergency department (ED) visit in a 12-month period than those in other age, race, income, and insurance groups.
    • Among the under-65 population, the uninsured were no more likely than the insured to have had at least one ED visit in a 12-month period.
    • Persons with Medicaid coverage were more likely to have had multiple visits to the ED in a 12-month period than those with private insurance and the uninsured.
    • ED visits by the uninsured were no more likely to be triaged as nonurgent than visits by those with private insurance or Medicaid coverage.
    • Persons with and without a usual source of medical care were equally likely to have had one or more ED visits in a 12-month period.*

* No usual source of medical care was determined in this manner:
    quote:

    Respondents were asked "Is there a place that (you/child's name) goes when (you/he/she) is sick or you need advice about (your/his/her) health?" Respondents were defined as having no usual source of health care if they answered "no" to this question or answered "yes" and responded "emergency room" to the question "What kind of place (is it/do you go to most often) -a clinic, doctor's office, emergency room, or some other place?"


The CDC is probably manipulating the data, though, to support conservative politico's, right?




Rule -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 9:11:04 AM)

Health care insurance ought to be abolished.

Patents and pesticides ought to be outlawed.

People ought to know that herpes virusses are very bad stuff.

Circumcision ought to be outlawed.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 9:31:10 AM)

A key difference between countries with single-payer health care and the US system is control of cost. Governments of countries with single-payer get to control how much health care costs. Private doesn't always mean competition. Sometimes companies decide instead to do the same thing at the same time. The best way to control health care costs is single-payer health care.




FunCouple5280 -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 9:46:38 AM)

Enough propping up other countries as examples. It isn't that single payer is necessarily bad. It is bad in the hands of our government. We spend too much on everything. The US spends more per student education than most western nations Source. Yet are we even in the top ten in scores? Australia almost spends a third less and scores much higher than the US, for example, in reading, math and science. Following an example like that I can't agree that the US government can do it. Maybe if we let the British or Germans manage our healthcare for us you you would have anargument [;)] lol

Our government routinely proves it can squander and steal money better than the private sector. We don't need healthcare reform. We need corruption reform.




tazzygirl -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 12:02:44 PM)

quote:

CDC ER Visit report (May 2010)


Your report uses 2007 numbers.... bet its almost doubled by now.





DesideriScuri -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 1:36:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

CDC ER Visit report (May 2010)

Your report uses 2007 numbers.... bet its almost doubled by now.


Source, or just hearsay?




mnottertail -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 1:51:53 PM)

Emergency Department Visitors and Visits: Who Used the Emergency Room in 2007?

T
amyra Carroll Garcia, Amy B. Bernstein, and Mary Ann Bush

Page one.  Perhaps a reading of the sources before you post them as citations for some view (in or out of context) might minimize these class of embarrassments. 




jlf1961 -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 3:36:10 PM)

Does it mean anything to people that countries with socialized medicine are having funding problems?

Single payer may be an option, but would our system handle the switch without collapsing?




DesideriScuri -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 5:17:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Emergency Department Visitors and Visits: Who Used the Emergency Room in 2007?

T
amyra Carroll Garcia, Amy B. Bernstein, and Mary Ann Bush
Page one.  Perhaps a reading of the sources before you post them as citations for some view (in or out of context) might minimize these class of embarrassments. 


You seem to think I'm embarrassed about something? This is a CDC report from May of 2010. I'm thinking it was relevant, no?

Which choice would you have made, from the CDC's page?






LPslittleclip -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 5:45:18 PM)

as a nurse i can say the whole thing needs to be redone medical decisions are made by insurance companys and not the health of the patient based on who can pay for the treatment and not who needs it hospitials encouraged to pad costs by overcharging for supplies when 3 inches of tape is used 3 rolls are charged treatment denied because some commity somewhere said so not because the patient is distressed. patents going bankrupt just to cover health care costs here. where in other countrys like india the same procedure that is $100,000 is only $20,000 and there is better accomidation better food and the travel is included.
something has to be done all agree on that
its the how that is the problem do we continue to let the elected gov officials do it and be swayed by high paying industry reps or do it ourselves




tazzygirl -> RE: health insurance companies warn of skyrocketing premiums (3/25/2013 5:47:18 PM)

Your links are not working.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/ervisits.htm

This webpage is not available

..........

* No usual source of medical care was determined in this manner:

http://205.207.175.93/HDI/TableViewer/summary.aspx

No report was specified.


Technical support information:

If this error persists, please contact the site administrator and provide the following error number: 90877f74-4d7f-4bfc-9e05-2c073d33e5fc

............

quote:

You seem to think I'm embarrassed about something? This is a CDC report from May of 2010. I'm thinking it was relevant, no?


The CDC report from "2010" uses 2007 numbers. Which pains an extremely conservative picture compared to today.

Im poor. Late time I was in the ER was April 10th, 2011, Porth Authority bus accident. Time before that, 2009, pyelonephritis.




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