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Being silent in Philly - 3/22/2013 8:57:41 PM

TheHeretic

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So an urban magazine ran an article a few weeks back, and it seems to have pissed off the mayor, along with many other people.

quote:

Nutter's war on words
You have to admire the nerve of Robert Huber, the intrepid writer who dared to present a white perspective on Philadelphia race relations in this month's issue of Philadelphia Magazine. His article, "Being White in Philadelphia," explores white Philadelphians' attitudes about black residents and crime, asking what, if anything, they are allowed to say about these subjects in public.

Apparently they'd better not say anything. At least that's the position taken by Mayor Nutter, who, having lost a battle with his inner Mussolini, has directed the Philadelphia Human Relations Commission to investigate and "rebuke" Huber and the magazine for raising these issues. It seems some views are just too awful to appear in print.

Being a free speech kind of guy, I don't approve of this sort of behavior from our elected officials. Of course, we live in a day where our government will brag to foreign audiences that the man who made a movie people didn't like had been locked in prison. Nobody has gone to jail here, but I think it is worth noting.

Here is the offending article from Philadelphia magazine.

Being White in Philly
Whites, race, class, and the things that never get said.
By Robert Huber

There is no way to discuss the article, and whether it should have seen print, without getting into what it says. With that in mind, let me state a question clearly, and ask that wherever this topic should lead (probably straight to Chi's inbox), everyone joining gives an answer to that yes/no question at the door.

Should a publication be allowed to print an article of this nature?

My answer is an unqualified, "YES."

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/22/2013 8:58:33 PM >

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/22/2013 9:18:37 PM

DarkSteven

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To be honest, I have mixed feelings about the article. That said, the idea of suppressing it and harassing the author is un-American.

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/22/2013 9:22:59 PM

tazzygirl

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Reading both articles made me wonder if they were too busy yelling at each other to hear each other.

The following from Nutter's war on words....

Nutter likens Huber's article to shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater, as if its publication threatens to rend Philadelphia's social fabric. Really? Are the city's race relations that volatile? Or are Nutter's dire rhetoric, over-the-top condemnation, and fascist antics merely an effort to score political points?

And yet, reading the second article, I wonder if a volatile undercurrent isnt seen by everyone.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 3/22/2013 9:23:14 PM >

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/22/2013 9:26:33 PM

littlewonder

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yes he should and I have to say, here in Baltimore, the same thing happens. There are certain things certain people don't talk about here because if you do you would be called a racist or ugly or uneducated or you will either hear a shot through your window if they don't get you first.

And yeah, it IS just that volatile both in Philly and here in Bmore.

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/22/2013 9:47:14 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

To be honest, I have mixed feelings about the article. That said, the idea of suppressing it and harassing the author is un-American.

Couldn't have said it better.

This is just example of the growing police state we are living in.

My grandfather told me years ago that this police state started post WW II and that it will just continue to get fester until we have no freedoms left unless the people put a stop to it. We haven't yet. And with what happened to Occupy, I don't think we have the resources or the manpower right now to do anything. So the police state is on steroids currently. Perhaps the next generation will be able to set our nation to rights...

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 5

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 4:42:14 AM

DarkSteven

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This is a bit of a stretch, but... if you consider Philly to be a distinct entity and Huber to be within that entity, would he be covered by whistleblower laws?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 5:20:13 AM

DomKen

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FR

Yes, he should be able to write the article and have it published.

However it is also quite American to point out the inherent racism of the article. The poorest urban neighborhoods are predominantly minority because the white majority has systematically denied them the economic opportunities needed to advance out of poverty.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 5:47:19 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

However it is also quite American to point out the inherent racism of the article.

Please do.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 8

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 5:56:55 AM

jlf1961

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After reading the article, I fail to see a racist point of view. I do however see an attitude that seems to permeate both races. That is stereotyping.

In my town there are three colleges, only one is located in a "good" neighborhood.

Funny thing, which should not be happening according to this article, most incidents requiring police happen at the college in the good neighborhood.

The students at the other two colleges are involved in community watch programs, clean up programs, basically all kinds of civic activities, the local businesses in those areas offer discounts with student ID's.

Of course it could just be that this city is a hell of a lot smaller than philly,

The writer of the article has clearly not heard the saying "white trash." Race has no bearing, in my opinion, on how and where people live.

As Jeff Foxworthy put it, "If you mow your lawn and find a car, you might be a ...." you know the rest.

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 6:48:23 AM

vincentML

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quote:

After reading the article, I fail to see a racist point of view. I do however see an attitude that seems to permeate both races. That is stereotyping.

Yeh, sure the author has a protected right to publish his article.

But I can understand the Mayor's ire. The entire article discusses white stereotypes of blacks and black crime. Never an interview with blacks about their fears and stereotypes of whites. Then near the end after writing nothing but the white pov he comes up with a call for inter-racial dialogue. What a hypocrite!! I'm surprised he didn't say "some of my best friends are black."

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 10

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 7:11:08 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

But I can understand the Mayor's ire. The entire article discusses white stereotypes of blacks and black crime. Never an interview with blacks about their fears and stereotypes of whites. Then near the end after writing nothing but the white pov he comes up with a call for inter-racial dialogue. What a hypocrite!! I'm surprised he didn't say "some of my best friends are black."

It's obvious from the article that there is no such thing as a monolithic "white" point of view. Maybe you missed that in your search for something to be outraged about. But hey, don't get me wrong. Some of my best friends are named Vincent.

K.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 11

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 8:06:59 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

But I can understand the Mayor's ire. The entire article discusses white stereotypes of blacks and black crime. Never an interview with blacks about their fears and stereotypes of whites. Then near the end after writing nothing but the white pov he comes up with a call for inter-racial dialogue. What a hypocrite!! I'm surprised he didn't say "some of my best friends are black."

It's obvious from the article that there is no such thing as a monolithic "white" point of view. Maybe you missed that in your search for something to be outraged about. But hey, don't get me wrong. Some of my best friends are named Vincent.

K.

Can't say that I am outraged and can't say that I am surprised.

While there may be no such thing as a monolithic white pov Huber dismisses the benign view with:

"I’ve shared my view of North Broad Street with people—white friends and colleagues—who see something else there: New buildings. Progress. Gentrification. They’re sunny about the area around Temple. I think they’re blind, that they’ve stopped looking. "

Sooo . . . a lady has her pumpkin stolen from her front porch and her barbecue stolen from her unfenced backyard and these are black crimes? White kids wouldn't do that?

A man complains that black drug dealers are harrassing him in front of his own place of business. White drug dealers are polite?

Oh wait, some of his best friends are black: "There is a black middle class, certainly, and blacks are well-represented in our power structure, but there remains a vast and seemingly permanent black underclass" Did he talk to any of them? Oh no. But at the end he puts a band aid on his slanted article by calling for inter-racial dialogue.

No stereotypes in Huber's article: "It’s a shame—you pay taxes, they’re not doing anything except sitting on porches smoking pot … Why do you support them when they won’t work, just make babies and smoking pot?"

The OP asks the wrong question with: "Should a publication be allowed to print an article of this nature?" The mayor did not threaten to shut down the magazine. Which of course he dare not even think such a thought.

The real question which the OP avoided imo: Is this article racist? My answer is an unqualified "YES."

I hope some of your Vincent friends are as handsome and smart as mine

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 12

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 8:36:45 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

However it is also quite American to point out the inherent racism of the article. The poorest urban neighborhoods are predominantly minority because the white majority has systematically denied them the economic opportunities needed to advance out of poverty.

Ken, my take is different than yours.

The main thing I took away from the article is how whites PERCEIVE blacks, not so much what reality is. While it is true that perception is based in reality, I didn't see that as the main focus. And the perception was not so much "poor" as "tending towards criminality".

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 13

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:10:27 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

"I’ve shared my view of North Broad Street with people—white friends and colleagues—who see something else there: New buildings. Progress. Gentrification. They’re sunny about the area around Temple. I think they’re blind, that they’ve stopped looking. "

That's racism? Have you ever been to North Philly? I grew up there. There are some gentrified areas around Temple, but when you step outside them you're not in an amusement park.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Sooo . . . a lady has her pumpkin stolen from her front porch and her barbecue stolen from her unfenced backyard and these are black crimes?

And you know they're not? Or you know she doesn't know? Which? And how do you know this?

Do you remember the Ta-Nehisi Coates thread about white racism? Did you notice that nowhere, ever, not anywhere was it stated that the employee who patted down Whitaker was white? Things are bad enough without people ginning up faux outrage based on facts not in evidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
A man complains that black drug dealers are harrassing him in front of his own place of business. White drug dealers are polite?

Well yes, Vincent, every one I've ever known was.

K.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 14

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:30:37 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The real question which the OP avoided

Don't go trying to read my mind, Vince. It's been clearly established that you can't. I agree with the author of the piece that we need to dramatically broaden the conversation. Asking if the piece itself is racist only hides from the question I asked. If it is, does that mean it should not be allowed into the light of day?

Why, if the subject of the article is "what white people don't say in public," would the author find any reason to interview non-whites? If the article was, "what people don't say about race in public," then certainly, and let's get some non-white hispanics into the mix as well, since they are the largest racial minority group in the US.

I do not define racism as saying anything outside the extremely narrow parameters of politically correct, speech. Are there racist attitudes expressed within the article? Yes. Is the article itself inherently racist? No.

In my own day to day, I view people through a filter of culture, rather than color, and if I l need to make a snap judgement about someone, I'm going to look at their shoes.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to vincentML)

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:34:31 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
A man complains that black drug dealers are harrassing him in front of his own place of business. White drug dealers are polite?

Well yes, Vincent, every one I've ever known was.

K.

I've known some very impolite ones, Kirata, but they didn't hang out in front of anyone's stores.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 16

RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:44:21 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Well yes, Vincent, every one I've ever known was.

(in reply to Kirata)

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:48:09 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Why, if the subject of the article is "what white people don't say in public," would the author find any reason to interview non-whites? If the article was, "what people don't say about race in public," then certainly, and let's get some non-white hispanics into the mix as well, since they are the largest racial minority group in the US.

Then why call for an inter-racial dialogue if he is talking only about white people?

A last minute "white wash" perhaps?

quote:

Are there racist attitudes expressed within the article? Yes. Is the article itself inherently racist? No.

The article is blatantly racist, Rich. The author throws out only one crumb to middle class blacks. Did he interview any white neighbors living near middle class blacks? Maybe I missed it among all the down low stereotypes.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/23/2013 9:53:27 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 9:58:43 AM

Hillwilliam

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If the mayor is pissed off, then maybe he needs to actually do something about it instead of playing "Kill the messenger".
A community cannot be 'saved' by outside forces. It doesn't matter whether it is a ghetto situation in a big city or a trailer park out in the sticks. The community can only 'save' itself.
Both communities have some of the similar problems. Single parent homes. Dropout rates (self inflicted). Drugs (self inflicted). Teenage pregnancy (self inflicted). Violence (self inflicted). Criminal activity (self inflicted).
Can anyone see a pattern?

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RE: Being silent in Philly - 3/23/2013 10:00:30 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Then why call for an inter-racial dialogue if he is talking only about white people?

What? You think one article is where such a conversation ends? That he needs to wrap the whole process up in 30 minutes, like a sitcom? Maybe it's tough enough to require a full hour Law and Order episode? He put something onto the table. Crying racism only seeks to remove it from there, rather than to pick it up, and move forward.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 20

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