quote:

vince what ya say is true enough bout poverty being one major cause but i dont see anyone saying its nutters fault. is anyone saying he can solve it either? nah doubt it. reckon that would be a tough call for anyone. what he can do tho is stop trying to suppress discussion. if ya support free speech i reckon you should feel tha same.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ETA. I've been to Philly and it's NOT a nice place.
Even in the touristy areas, you want to have your ass OFF the streets and in your motel before dark.
If the mayor doesn't like the article, then maybe he should quit playing "kill the messenger" and do someting about it.

You are saying that tongue in cheek, right? You do know the issues of poverty in the inner cities and the rural country side have been enourmous problems for decades, right? It is a national problem engendered in part by white flight. So, what are the solutions? Nobody seems to have an answer. Don't put it all on Mayor Nutter. And tell me how interracial dialogue is going to help. What do you think the mayor should do to solve the problem. Maybe you could lend your plan to the mayors of Newark, Detroit, etc.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
No I'm not saying it tongue in cheek
I am simply stating observed facts.
Philly is a dirty town with high levels of street crime even in the "nice touristy" areas.

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No I'm not saying it tongue in cheek
I am simply stating observed facts.
Philly is a dirty town with high levels of street crime even in the "nice touristy" areas.
I've worked in Liberty City and Overtown in the wee hours of the night and I felt less comfortable in Philly. If the mayor can't be held responsible for the town they why in the hell are they paying him?
You say it's "White Flight" Are you implying that they are the only people who are leaving the inner city?
Hmmmmm, someone seems to be predicting behavior based only on skin color. Imagine that. What is that attitude called?

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If you read the article, you would see that several of the subjects of it are whites moving INTO the city, not fleeing.

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The first step to solving a problem is to admit you have the problem. Nutter is sticking his head in the sand. I put 100% of the blame on him for that.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

No I'm not saying it tongue in cheek
I am simply stating observed facts.
Philly is a dirty town with high levels of street crime even in the "nice touristy" areas.
I've worked in Liberty City and Overtown in the wee hours of the night and I felt less comfortable in Philly. If the mayor can't be held responsible for the town they why in the hell are they paying him?
You say it's "White Flight" Are you implying that they are the only people who are leaving the inner city?
Hmmmmm, someone seems to be predicting behavior based only on skin color. Imagine that. What is that attitude called?

See my post in the What causes urban poverty? thread, Will.

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If you read the article, you would see that several of the subjects of it are whites moving INTO the city, not fleeing.

Huber discounted those folks and said they were blind.

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The first step to solving a problem is to admit you have the problem. Nutter is sticking his head in the sand. I put 100% of the blame on him for that.

Huber did not even come close to identifying the problem imo. Again, see my post in the Poverty thread. Maybe you can add to my thoughts or help clarify some.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

No I'm not saying it tongue in cheek
I am simply stating observed facts.
Philly is a dirty town with high levels of street crime even in the "nice touristy" areas.
I've worked in Liberty City and Overtown in the wee hours of the night and I felt less comfortable in Philly. If the mayor can't be held responsible for the town they why in the hell are they paying him?
You say it's "White Flight" Are you implying that they are the only people who are leaving the inner city?
Hmmmmm, someone seems to be predicting behavior based only on skin color. Imagine that. What is that attitude called?

See my post in the What causes urban poverty? thread, Will.

quote:

If you read the article, you would see that several of the subjects of it are whites moving INTO the city, not fleeing.

Huber discounted those folks and said they were blind.

quote:

The first step to solving a problem is to admit you have the problem. Nutter is sticking his head in the sand. I put 100% of the blame on him for that.

Huber did not even come close to identifying the problem imo. Again, see my post in the Poverty thread. Maybe you can add to my thoughts or help clarify some.

You didn't answer my first question. I wonder why?

The people moving into the city was a response to your "flight" comment

Your treply to #3 has nothing to do with what I said. I was criticising the mayor who sticks his head in the sand instead of admitting there is a problem. Nice for 3K+/week.
Do you wish to get back to what I was talkinig about and address that?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


No, not really. the issue of urban poverty is much bigger than one city mayor. That's why I wrote a more extensive piece in the Urban Poverty thread. I care not to continue jousting over trivial and narrow sighted matters. You're welcome to respond to my analysis in the other thread however.
Vincent

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


No, not really. the issue of urban poverty is much bigger than one city mayor. That's why I wrote a more extensive piece in the Urban Poverty thread. I care not to continue jousting over trivial and narrow sighted matters. You're welcome to respond to my analysis in the other thread however.
Vincent

The problem itself is bigger then one mayor. PART of the problem in Philly is a mayor who refuses to acknowledge the problem.

Here's a concept. Urban poverty has more than one cause and and different towns will have different causes.

Detroit's problems are vastly different from miami's. Miami's are totally different from LA's.
Philly's problems start with a mayor who refuses to acknowledge a problem.
That is 100% on him.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


No, not really. the issue of urban poverty is much bigger than one city mayor. That's why I wrote a more extensive piece in the Urban Poverty thread. I care not to continue jousting over trivial and narrow sighted matters. You're welcome to respond to my analysis in the other thread however.
Vincent

The problem itself is bigger then one mayor. PART of the problem in Philly is a mayor who refuses to acknowledge the problem.

Here's a concept. Urban poverty has more than one cause and and different towns will have different causes.

Detroit's problems are vastly different from miami's. Miami's are totally different from LA's.
Philly's problems start with a mayor who refuses to acknowledge a problem.
That is 100% on him.

If that's what you think . . . fine.
We disagree.
I think poverty in our urban areas has common roots.
Do you know of one city mayor who has demonstratively diminished urban poverty during the past decade by his own efforts and not by fortuitous circumstances?
I haven't heard the news.
Oh btw, when did Mayor Nutter refuse to acknowledge the problem of poverty in Philadelphia?

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By taking a "kill the messenger" approach to this article instead of acknowledging problems.
"It's not our fault" seems to be his mantra. Well, for $3000+/week, it's damn sure his responsibility.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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By taking a "kill the messenger" approach to this article instead of acknowledging problems.
"It's not our fault" seems to be his mantra. Well, for $3000+/week, it's damn sure his responsibility.

Ah,no answer to my question then!
I do believe you got the mayor's ire wrong.
The mayor's objection was to the perpetuation of racial stereotypes in the article.
No mention of urban poverty.

The mayor of LA makes $205,000/year
The mayor of NYC makes $195,000/year
Nutter earns $152,000/year

But be patient. As soon as his superman cape is returned from the dry cleaner he will solve the poverty problem in his city. No worries. Be happy.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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By taking a "kill the messenger" approach to this article instead of acknowledging problems.
"It's not our fault" seems to be his mantra. Well, for $3000+/week, it's damn sure his responsibility.

Ah,no answer to my question then!
I do believe you got the mayor's ire wrong.
The mayor's objection was to the perpetuation of racial stereotypes in the article.
No mention of urban poverty.

The mayor of LA makes $205,000/year
The mayor of NYC makes $195,000/year
Nutter earns $152,000/year

But be patient. As soon as his superman cape is returned from the dry cleaner he will solve the poverty problem in his city. No worries. Be happy.

The mayors of LA and NYC acknowledge their problems even though they have different causes. Not all urban poverty has exactly the same cause. that's why it can't be cured on a federal level.
LA. Poverty is primarily linked to illegal immigration and 'sweat shops' that hire them. Illegal immigrants brought in their own organized crime from mexico and Central America.
Detroit. Poverty is primarily linked to the near death of the US auto industry.
Miami. Legal immigration that sucked up all the available 'goodies' and the fact that it is nearly impossible to find an entry level job if one does not speak Spanish.

See, 3 places and 3 different reasons for poverty.
Im sorry you had to resort to a strawman argument but I wasn't saying he had to SOLVE the problem. I said he had to Acknowledge the problem.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

By taking a "kill the messenger" approach to this article instead of acknowledging problems.
"It's not our fault" seems to be his mantra. Well, for $3000+/week, it's damn sure his responsibility.

Ah,no answer to my question then!
I do believe you got the mayor's ire wrong.
The mayor's objection was to the perpetuation of racial stereotypes in the article.
No mention of urban poverty.

The mayor of LA makes $205,000/year
The mayor of NYC makes $195,000/year
Nutter earns $152,000/year

But be patient. As soon as his superman cape is returned from the dry cleaner he will solve the poverty problem in his city. No worries. Be happy.

The mayors of LA and NYC acknowledge their problems even though they have different causes. Not all urban poverty has exactly the same cause. that's why it can't be cured on a federal level.
LA. Poverty is primarily linked to illegal immigration and 'sweat shops' that hire them. Illegal immigrants brought in their own organized crime from mexico and Central America.
Detroit. Poverty is primarily linked to the near death of the US auto industry.
Miami. Legal immigration that sucked up all the available 'goodies' and the fact that it is nearly impossible to find an entry level job if one does not speak Spanish.

See, 3 places and 3 different reasons for poverty.
Im sorry you had to resort to a strawman argument but I wasn't saying he had to SOLVE the problem. I said he had to Acknowledge the problem.

Ohhh . . .the old strawman card.
Why exactly did he have to acknowledge the poverty problem when it was not raised as an issue in the article to which he objected?

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I have to say this a third time don't I.
Poverty solutions are local.
You cannot solve a problem until you admit you have it.
The mayor is having a bit of a problem as he finds it easier to "kill the messenger" by castigating the author of the article and asking that he be 'investigated' (for fucking what?) than to admit there is a problem and begin a dialog.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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I have to say this a third time don't I.
Poverty solutions are local.
You cannot solve a problem until you admit you have it.
The mayor is having a bit of a problem as he finds it easier to "kill the messenger" by castigating the author of the article and asking that he be 'investigated' (for fucking what?) than to admit there is a problem and begin a dialog.

Sorry. I do not agree. Beginning a dialog is an exercise in futility.

Poverty is a systemic national problem that resulted from the migration of jobs and investments out of rural and urban areas beginning back in the 1950s and became exacerbated by the relocation of jobs overseas. It will only be solved by capital investment directed or lured to where it is needed. No city has enough capital of its own to do anything except apply some bandaids.

If it is local show me where a locality has successfully solved the problem barring some exceptional exogenous event like the new oil fields in North Dakota.

We simply do not agree on the nature of the problem.

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Are you saying that the way to begin solving the problem of poverty is to refuse to talk about it and pretend it doesn't exist?
Are you saying that the solution to poverty is to accuse someone who points it out of racism and asking that he be 'investigated'.

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The nature of the problem is this. There are so-called "civic leaders" who may or may not have had humble beginnings who have the attitude of "I got mine, fuck you".
When someone has the balls to point it out, they start screaming "RACIST!!!"

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Are you saying that the way to begin solving the problem of poverty is to refuse to talk about it and pretend it doesn't exist?
Are you saying that the solution to poverty is to accuse someone who points it out of racism and asking that he be 'investigated'.

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The nature of the problem is this. There are so-called "civic leaders" who may or may not have had humble beginnings who have the attitude of "I got mine, fuck you".
When someone has the balls to point it out, they start screaming "RACIST!!!"

Simplistic in the extreme.

I detailed my view of how urban poverty occurred in the other thread. I invited you to visit and comment. I have nothing more to say here. Sorry. I don't mean to be rude. You have no answer to the question I posed. That tells me your analysis is wrong. No point continuing going round in circles here.

adios