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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/24/2013 7:04:40 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I understand. Even though I'm still a Christian, all of the things you listed affect me. And if I had a dollar for every time I said "fuck religion", I'd have a buncha dollars.

Ditto on all.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/24/2013 7:11:00 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/23/the-money-man-behind-atheisms-activism/

Anyone that wants to really hear some absolutely powerful arguments against religion, should look up this guy on youtube:

Christopher Hitchens

You can click on his vids for days and be truly amazed at his brilliance.

He's not at all spiteful, but incredibly intelligent on his discourse.

He was an excellent writer, for sure. Way back in the days when I was immersed in all things liberal, I used to love reading his columns for The Nation; him, Alexander Cockburn, and Katha Pollit made a powerful argument for that side of things.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/24/2013 9:04:38 PM

Powergamz1

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And if you get tired of all that nice stuff, there is always Tim Minchin on YouTube...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/23/the-money-man-behind-atheisms-activism/

Anyone that wants to really hear some absolutely powerful arguments against religion, should look up this guy on youtube:

Christopher Hitchens

You can click on his vids for days and be truly amazed at his brilliance.

He's not at all spiteful, but incredibly intelligent on his discourse.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/24/2013 10:53:57 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

And if you get tired of all that nice stuff, there is always Tim Minchin on YouTube...

Gotta love Tim Minchin!

Another hilarious commentary on the dreariness of organised religions is the superb Mrs. Betty Bowers, Amerika's Best Christian also available on YouTube to any one with a sense of humour, or indeed, any one in search of a sense of humour.

Betty worships at the Landover Baptist Church, 'Where the Worthwhile Worship', which has been guaranteeing Salvation since 1620 with not a single pauper saved! Is that a miracle or what?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/24/2013 11:02:46 PM >

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/25/2013 9:31:02 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
I'm rather astonished that there even needs to be a "money man" behind atheism.

The guy has donated 3.5 million. The most charitable way I can comment on labeling him "the money man" is to call it an exaggeration.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/25/2013 6:58:06 PM

WebWanderer

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Good for him. He's still in his 30s, which means he's got a good 40 years ahead of him. That is, of course, unless some mentally unstable crusader guns him down.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/25/2013 7:58:13 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Anyone that wants to really hear some absolutely powerful arguments against religion, should look up this guy on youtube:

Christopher Hitchens

I have a different view. In my opinion, Christopher Hitchens does not make a powerful argument against religion, he makes a facile argument against a caricature of religion. I am no fan of scriptural literalism and dogma, but I do not conflate them with the entire sphere of religion.

Christopher Hitches and the other "New Atheists" are as intolerant and bigoted as any religious fundamentalist. Where the latter try to sell a utopian vision of collective salvation through their version of religion, the former try to sell a utopian vision of collective salvation through science and reason.

In both cases, the solution they offer is for people to become like them, think like them, and adopt their values if humanity is to advance morally and save itself from its delusions. In both cases the problem is "them," those who are impediments to the utopian vision, and who must therefore be converted, marginalized, suppressed, or somehow gotten out of the way of progress.

Where one blames everything on religion, the other blames everything on secularism. But the secular version of this salvation myth is no less delusional than the one it opposes, because in both cases the evil is externalized. The real danger we face is falling under the sway of either of these intoxicating, non-reality based, utopian fantasies that we can "save" ourselves from human nature.

Like the religious fundamentalists, the New Atheists fail to comprehend the dark side of human nature, our capacity for evil. Human nature is inherently flawed. Institutionalized religions are guilty of moral offenses for exactly the same reason that governments are: They are run by human beings.

Religion has brought both good and evil, teachings of love and tolerance, but also acts of cruelty and barbarism. Science has brought both good and evil, medical and social advances, but also technolgies that we have used to pollute the Earth as never before and to annihilate human populations on horrific scales. The fault lies with neither religion nor science. It lies with us.

Having faith in science and reason as our "saviors" is just as delusional as believing that the Lord Jesus Christ will save us and set everything aright. It is simply a new set of clothes for the same old self-serving deception, and just another way of setting the "faithful" against the "non-believers," based on the premise that the "problem" is something other than ourselves

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/25/2013 8:37:22 PM >

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/25/2013 10:55:02 PM

Powergamz1

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a facile argument against a caricature of religion.

And when that caricature is the most vocal, harmful, objectionable, hypocritical and oppressive representation of religion on the planet, it becomes a moot point.

The harm is what needs to be argued against, whether or not there are there are a small number of nice people somewhere sharing the same label.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/25/2013 11:16:46 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

a facile argument against a caricature of religion.

And when that caricature is the most vocal, harmful, objectionable, hypocritical and oppressive representation of religion on the planet, it becomes a moot point.

The harm is what needs to be argued against, whether or not there are there are a small number of nice people somewhere sharing the same label.

When bigots trot out the violent crime rates among inner-city blacks to justify their attitude toward blacks as a whole, we don't defend them and write off the "small number" of nice blacks "somewhere" as an irrelevant detail.

But thanks for helping to make my point.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/25/2013 11:20:11 PM >

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/26/2013 5:03:36 AM

Powergamz1

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I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to back up yet another one of your false equivalencies, since we both know it is false. Black people aren't the group overwhelmingly claiming to be inferior. And atheists weren't the group promoting slavery and racism.

Your earlier claim about the caricature of religion is the tired old 'No True Scotsman' fallacy, and also fails on every level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

a facile argument against a caricature of religion.

And when that caricature is the most vocal, harmful, objectionable, hypocritical and oppressive representation of religion on the planet, it becomes a moot point.

The harm is what needs to be argued against, whether or not there are there are a small number of nice people somewhere sharing the same label.

When bigots trot out the violent crime rates among inner-city blacks to justify their attitude toward blacks as a whole, we don't defend them and write off the "small number" of nice blacks "somewhere" as an irrelevant detail.

But thanks for helping to make my point.

K.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/26/2013 5:20:20 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to back up yet another one of your false equivalencies, since we both know it is false.

Well no, we don't "both know it is false". But your willingness to claim omniscience is stunning. Get yourself a gallon of this stuff, and you'll be all set to start threatening people with damnation if they don't worship you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Your earlier claim about the caricature of religion is the tired old 'No True Scotsman' fallacy, and also fails on every level.

So you say, and I'm glad you do. See if you can figure out why.

K.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/27/2013 12:34:00 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
The harm is what needs to be argued against, whether or not there are there are a small number of nice people somewhere sharing the same label.

I agree with this sentiment with the caveat that I think there are a very significant number of nice people out there who apply the label Christian to themselves.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/27/2013 2:15:02 PM

Moonhead

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But would the shits apply the Christian label to these nice people? I have my doubts about that.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/27/2013 3:37:55 PM

TricklessMagic

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It's been my experience that many Christians have never read or attempted to understand the bible on top of knowing nothing of history or past cultures. Granted I think Christianity and many of the religions that followed are nonsense but that's me. As to atheists I don't necessarily see a problem with them. I just refuse to recognized a world without some kind of grand force behind it, be it God or some level of energy or something. If all that happens when I die is I stop ticking and go into the void, so be it. But just in case I'll try and be a better person, or at least an honest person that functions as something more than a mere animal or walking bag of meat and bones. I don't really understand Atheists, a world without God and judgment is a world where the only rules that exist are those created by the collective which is inherently incapable of being ultimately right as what is right is decided by a group able to establish and maintain its will over others be either deception or force. All the sins of this world go away in an atheist's world. Sure it might be against the law but it is incapable of being truly wrong so it only works on those whom fear death or incarceration and if you find your life is one of suffering upon which you wish to either rise or die, then how is anything truly wrong then. Then that individual would be possibly motivated to simply murder off all those who disapprove of his line of thinking thus eliminating those who would maintain will and power over him. And why wouldn't he, if there is no true right or wrong but mere opinion. Hmmm yeah I think the world is lucky I fear God and damnation most days. Granted if I end up in hell I'll do my best to make the Devil my bitch.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/27/2013 4:13:34 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

But would the shits apply the Christian label to these nice people? I have my doubts about that.

I doubt it too. One of the things that make them shits, is a pronounced distate of those that disagree with them.

But as Steel said, I think a sizable amount of Christians (and Jews, and Buddhists) are generally decent.

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RE: Atheism's Money Man - 3/28/2013 6:31:09 AM

Real0ne

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thats the nice thing about the american commercial government. It accepts anyone willing to worship the dollar.

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