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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 10:40:29 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		How many of these "multiple" choices use the exact same parts as the "competition"?

You are paying more for a brand than you are for the sum of it's parts, because most of the brands use the exact same components.

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 10:51:02 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 1:34:05 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I dont own cheap chinese pliers, I own Klein and ChannelLock (pre chinese).
So, now we find that outsourcing brings cheap junk that has got to be replaced constantly, since it is not fit for real use.
Churning isn't good for the American people, it is good for and only serves the corporation.


ChannelLock's aren't Made in America anymore? Seems like they still are. Would have been a huge shocker to see that change.

From their site:


If Wiha tools were made in America, what would your perception of them be? What do you think of auto parts not made in America going into vehicles made in America? Does your stance on "American Made" only extend to "Union Made," or does it include items with foreign nameplates that are made in America?

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 1:39:38 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Why do I gotta write a treatise here?  My stance is against cheap junk and the churning done at most of the stores via corporate lassize faire.

It aint doing the folks in America any sort of service.

Yeah, Klien is still manufactured in the USA as is channel lock.   It still is not a widening of selections. 

The goal of corporate business is to gobble up or destroy competition. 

The fact that 2000 chinese supply companies will make the same horseshit plier to sell under 85000 brand names does not widen the selection in an appreciable way.

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 5:03:03 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Why do I gotta write a treatise here?  My stance is against cheap junk and the churning done at most of the stores via corporate lassize faire.
It aint doing the folks in America any sort of service.
Yeah, Klien is still manufactured in the USA as is channel lock.   It still is not a widening of selections. 
The goal of corporate business is to gobble up or destroy competition. 
The fact that 2000 chinese supply companies will make the same horseshit plier to sell under 85000 brand names does not widen the selection in an appreciable way.


Why do people buy cheap crap? Do they not know it's cheap crap? If you are doing a job that you might have to do once in your lifetime, is it better to buy the least expensive option that will suffice or the highest quality item possible? If you're a wrench-turner, buy the best damn ones you can afford so they last. If not, meh. Buy what-the-fuck-ever you want.

If people didn't want the cheap garbage, they wouldn't buy it. If they didn't buy it, what do you think would happen? Raise the demand for the high quality stuff. Market the value, longevity, etc. of the high quality stuff.

A treatise? No need for that. I asked 3 questions. At most, you'd need to write 3 paragraphs total. At a minimum, 4 sentences. now, if you can't string 3 paragraphs together in response to 3 questions without going through the pains of writing a treatise, then, don't answer the questions. But, your treatise posturing is nothing more than a sign that you don't want to answer the questions. This is quite common with those who want to bloviate and obfuscate without actually having anything definitive that defines their thinking, so they can change it when it suits their purposes.

And, Ron, unless it's a ridiculously good deal, I do buy quality handtools. I don't do it because they are American made, but I do it because I want quality handtools. If I'm going to do something that's likely to destroy the tool, I buy the least expensive thing I can to do the job. I buy on value, which is what I assume you also do. You can criticize as if you're high and mighty all day long, but if you're unwilling to answer some questions, what are you really?


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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 6:59:33 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

Guns and ammo sales spark jobs boom

At least one sector of the work force is expanding.

Can't blame this one on Bush.




I'm not so sure about that....as a lifelong Republican, I'm fairly comfortable about blaming a fair portion of our current issues on Mr Bush.

The remainder, I'm equally comfortable blaming Reagan and Obama.

(I'm an equal opportunity blamer).

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/25/2013 8:44:38 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		The lunatic fringe has been digging bomb shelters long before bush or President Obama.....

glen beck was ripping his fans off with "survival seeds" and over-priced gold scams, long before the President took office....


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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 5:08:32 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Why do people buy cheap crap?

Because it's cheap, and if something's cheap enough, they don't care that it's crap.

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 5:57:28 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Why do people buy cheap crap?

Because it's cheap, and if something's cheap enough, they don't care that it's crap.


So, they are knowingly buying crap, because it is cheap. So, the cost of the item is indicative of the quality of the item. I have no problem with that at all. I might not agree that is the best way to go about it, but that's their prerogative.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 6:46:52 AM   
TricklessMagic


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Status: offline 		Americans by and large don't care about the quality of the good or service they are purchasing they just want it cheap. They don't want a quality product or service, just the ability to say they purchased it, and when it is crap the ability to bitch. As goods become more expensive people want things even cheaper and still expect quality to improve. A bit of consumer insanity in my opinion.

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 7:40:52 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Why do I gotta write a treatise here?  My stance is against cheap junk and the churning done at most of the stores via corporate lassize faire.
It aint doing the folks in America any sort of service.
Yeah, Klien is still manufactured in the USA as is channel lock.   It still is not a widening of selections. 
The goal of corporate business is to gobble up or destroy competition. 
The fact that 2000 chinese supply companies will make the same horseshit plier to sell under 85000 brand names does not widen the selection in an appreciable way.


Why do people buy cheap crap? Do they not know it's cheap crap?  Buy what-the-fuck-ever you want.

If people didn't want the cheap garbage, they wouldn't buy it. If they didn't buy it, what do you think would happen? Raise the demand for the high quality stuff. Market the value, longevity, etc. of the high quality stuff.



Now you run yourself around in circles, I asked you questions you deflect them with more absolute untruths.

Most of the US is Ace Hardware, Hardware Hank, Wal-Mart or some other Chinese Junk shop.

Where is the widening of selection.  I am not gonna write three paragraphs so you can ask 5 more questions that have nothing to do with reality, or even have to do with what you say, and run around in circles.

Average people do not have money to buy the quality stuff, they exist on minimum wage or slightly better, where they have jobs, they pay out the ass for health insurance, car insurance, food and gas, rent, and so on.

What is the median income for a family of 4 that household gross minus taxes, rent, food, gas, insurance, electricity and so on?

Where is the nearest Mercedes dealer to them?  Where is the nearest nothing cheap ass made in china or some redneck furniture store made by toothless minimum wage workers?

How much disposable income do they have, for consumables, how many brands of pliers are there that are of: highest quality, and available, medium quality and available, low quality and abundant?

Answer some of those simple riddles.

My point stands, a wide selection of high quality goods are not readily available, for reasonable prices, to the average schmuck.

Corporations outsourced their stuff to china and maylasia and whatnot in this country and thats all you get.



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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 10:37:49 AM   
Yachtie


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This isn't good.

"Since the economy began its slow, slow recovery in late 2009, we’ve been averaging about 150,000 jobs created per month,” said Joffe-Walt in an Public Radio International (PRI) “This American Life” interview. “In that same period every month, almost 250,000 people have been applying for disability.”

Just what kind of jobs are being created?

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/26/2013 10:38:06 AM >

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 1:27:40 PM   
papassion


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I think everybody agrees we want well made goods at a reasonable price.
but we fail to understand we are in a world market. When it comes to labor, we in the US are at a DISADVANTAGE. We won't work for what a foreign worker will.

Our corporate taxes are the highest in the world. again DISADVANTAGE

Now Obama wants green energy that is potentially cleaner but more expensive. Thus our increased energy costs will put us at a manufacturing DISADVANTAGE.

Jeezz, I wonder why manufacturing is going overseas?

And the bad part is, even if ALL manufacturing comes back to the US. Automation has ALREADY replaced about 1/3 of the workers! And continues to reduce labor needed. Folks, Get a hell of a good education if you want to live well in today's world market economy!

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 1:33:31 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think everybody agrees we want well made goods at a reasonable price.
but we fail to understand we are in a world market. When it comes to labor, we in the US are at a DISADVANTAGE. We won't work for what a foreign worker will.

Tarriff and Taxation.  Craven corporate capitulist teabaggers sure dont understand that we are in a world market.  (BTW, we never have worked for what a foreign worker will. Waltz me thru what has changed in life)



Our corporate taxes are the highest in the world. again DISADVANTAGE

Not by a damn sight other than nominally.


Now Obama wants green energy that is potentially cleaner but more expensive. Thus our increased energy costs will put us at a manufacturing DISADVANTAGE.

No energy whatsover will be a DISADVANTAGE.


Jeezz, I wonder why manufacturing is going overseas?

Cuz we wont let you create Love Canal here anymore nor will corporatists fund their superfund cleanup sites, but they will poison the motherfuckers.  


And the bad part is, even if ALL manufacturing comes back to the US. Automation has ALREADY replaced about 1/3 of the workers! And continues to reduce labor needed. Folks, Get a hell of a good education if you want to live well in today's world market economy!

And do what with it?   Peddle derivatives to the auto workers in China?  The software coders in India? At their dollar fifty a day, they cant support our DISADVANTAGED lifestyle.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/26/2013 1:35:31 PM >

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 5:04:52 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

Americans by and large don't care about the quality of the good or service they are purchasing they just want it cheap. They don't want a quality product or service, just the ability to say they purchased it, and when it is crap the ability to bitch. As goods become more expensive people want things even cheaper and still expect quality to improve. A bit of consumer insanity in my opinion.


After the Bic lighter came out in the early to mid 70's, you can almost trace the lineage to when Americans started caring less about "American Made" and....what would simply get the job done.

And ever since, they've complained (as they stormed the stores to purchase more cheap shit) "all this cheap shit is ruining our country!"

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 5:07:52 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR

This isn't good.

"Since the economy began its slow, slow recovery in late 2009, we’ve been averaging about 150,000 jobs created per month,” said Joffe-Walt in an Public Radio International (PRI) “This American Life” interview. “In that same period every month, almost 250,000 people have been applying for disability.”

Just what kind of jobs are being created?


Yachtie.....Obama says we're in recovery mode.

Tazzy says the economy is improving because the DOW is up.

I believe Tazzy and Obama.

The fact that 250,000 new entrants to the employment market arrive every month (18 year old's, immigration) and 175,000 average are getting new jobs should NOT sway your thinking!

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RE: Who says Obama is not creating jobs? - 3/26/2013 5:17:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


I think everybody agrees we want well made goods at a reasonable price.
but we fail to understand we are in a world market. When it comes to labor, we in the US are at a DISADVANTAGE. We won't work for what a foreign worker will.

Our corporate taxes are the highest in the world. again DISADVANTAGE

Now Obama wants green energy that is potentially cleaner but more expensive. Thus our increased energy costs will put us at a manufacturing DISADVANTAGE.

Jeezz, I wonder why manufacturing is going overseas?

And the bad part is, even if ALL manufacturing comes back to the US. Automation has ALREADY replaced about 1/3 of the workers! And continues to reduce labor needed. Folks, Get a hell of a good education if you want to live well in today's world market economy!


The U.S. market is not now nor has it ever been at a disadvantage and, in my rather humble opinion, thanks to recent finds of incredibly cheap LNG, I believe you're going to see a renaissance of new manufacturing jobs.

But THIS is the dilemma....it's not our land prices, it's not even labor demands as to hourly cost that's killing us worldwide...it's simply that there will in the future be fewer people manufacturing ever larger numbers of goods (via computerization and automation robots) etc.

Unions want to stop that. AND, there simply aren't enough people, intelligent enough, to operate and maintain the machines.

Our future (and current) new worklers, on the whole, are lucky if they start life with a high school degree, or (maybe even) two years of community college or trade schools.

The world hasn't passed us by....we've sat on the side lines, cheering ourselves on "Rah Rah USA!!!".

As a world class machine, we suck. We're broken down, 5th in class or worse and...in the end, we're all still out there rah rah'ng....even as China in 2017 (20 years earlier than was predicted just 7 years ago) will be the world's largest economy.

They didn't take it from us....we handed it to them.

We can take it back...it's really easy: Stay in school (or have your children do so), do whatever it takes for them to get at least B's and then demand that they go to college.

Sell the house, make a deal with your kids..."I get 12% of your income until your loans are paid off plus another 15 years".

Their credit won't be spoiled,your butt will be covered (if they produce) and in the end, everyone wins.

Then watch your kids shine.

Then watch the U.S. do the same.

Until we're back on top...and as an employer who has watched academic capacity literally flail since easily 1990,I blame parents for the U.S.'s lack of education (and available pool of productive workers).

Not the schools.

If your kid is a failure in life....unless he/she is just a complete (natural) fuck up (or has a handicap of some sort), I blame you.

Not China.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 3/26/2013 5:20:54 PM >

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