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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 3:34:54 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

Oh my God, teh Jesuits are Commies.


They seem to be a little less fond of mass murder these days than most Commies are.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 3:36:27 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningStar01

In response to the first initial post...No change there then...the Catholic Church is just one long history of murder, persecution (especialy of women) and the rape of young boys. It's a bit like saying the sky is blue. It is the most evil institution in the world...methinks the Pope is the ambassador of the the devil. All popes are essentially the Anti-Christ. And boy is it a good disguise.



Sounds like a follower or "The One True Faith" speaking.

(in reply to MorningStar01)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 3:50:55 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningStar01

Searching. You have a point...it is all wrong from any race or religion....but you have to admit that male Catholic Priests seem to be experts in abuse...hmmm..I say male but then that is all the Catholic Church is full of. Doing as they please...it does make me angry :(



First of all, you are making a general statement declaring all catholic priests are guilty of child molestation.

That is a false assumption that leads me to believe you do not have any clue as to what you are talking about. The incidence of Pedophilia among Catholic priests is just a little above that of the rest of the male population. In fact about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married, and most pedophiles seek careers in areas that have direct involvement with children.

The news media creates the public myth that is more prevalent in priests because Catholic Priests are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population, even by non-Catholics. Unless it is a case that involves multiple victims, pedophiles rarely make national or international news.

Have bishops and archbishops in the church covered up for priests guilty of such crimes, yes. I wont argue that.

Should the mother church do more to make sure the offenders are punished by secular law, again yes.

Are bishops, archbishops, cardinals etc more worried about the image of the church, yes, but it is starting to change, to which most Catholics will say about time.

As for the celibacy requirement for priests, you can blame that on Pope Alexander VI, aka Roderic Llançol i de Borja. As pope he had mistresses, frequinted brothels, owned a few brothels and generally brought a whole new meaning to the words decadent and depraved.




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(in reply to MorningStar01)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 6:07:17 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Pope Francis seems reluctant to be pope, preferring title bishop of Rome in hint of priorities
He still goes by "Bergoglio" when speaking to friends, seems reluctant to call himself pope and has decided to live in the Vatican hotel rather than the grand papal apartment in the Apostolic Palace.

It might seem as if Pope Francis is in a bit of denial over his new job as leader of the world's 1.2-billion Catholics. Or perhaps he's simply changing the popular idea of what it means to be pope, keeping the no-frills style he cultivated as archbishop of Buenos Aires in ways that may have broad implications for the church.

The world has already seen how Francis has cast aside many trappings of the papacy, refusing to don the red velvet cape Benedict XVI wore for official occasions and keeping the simple, iron-plated pectoral cross he used as bishop and archbishop.


Read more:


Sorry I am not used to the "humble" pope. I mean come on, these guys are clothes nuts and have to have the best residence in Rome. What gives?


Me....I vote for this guy for Pope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDitGAUrno

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 7:00:42 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir




He is a Jesuit. The Jesuits, I believe, own things in common but don't really have personal possessions. It isn't a vow of poverty, per se.




No, it's a vow of poverty:

"I, (name), make my profession, and I promise to Almighty God, in the presence of his Virgin Mother, the whole heavenly court, and all those here present and to you , Reverend Father (Provincial, Rector, etc.) representing the Superior General of the Society of Jesus and his successors and holding the place of God, perpetual poverty, chastity and obedience; and, in conformity with it, special care for the instruction of children, according to the manner of living contained in the apostolic letters of the Society of Jesus and its Constitutions.

I further promise a special obedience to the Sovereign Pontiff in regard to the missions according to the same apostolic letters and Constitutions."

http://www.jesuit.org/about/faqs/

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 7:25:36 PM   
peppermint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I too wish they would officially adress this. But sadly, I don't think that will ever happen unless priests are allowed to marry again. Funny how a single man, who's sole relationship experience is boiled down to a few self-inflicted hand-jobs or worse a pedophilic rape give marital advise to couples.....


There is a little known fact about married Roman Catholic priests.  There are some.  In fact, they were married before becoming Catholic priests.  The church has welcomed them as priests and their families into the fold. 

Orthodox priests can marry and have families.  Here comes the touchy part.  Occasionally one wishes to convert and join the Roman Catholic church.  These converts become Roman Catholic priests in good standing and get to keep their families too.  They are assigned to churches, say mass, hear confessions, and do everything that priests do. 

My question is, if the church is willing to accept some married priests, why will the church not allow other priests to marry? 

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/28/2013 9:56:56 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		More so with the High Episcopal/Anglicans coming into the Church.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MARPRIE.htm

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 8:47:18 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

There is a little known fact about married Roman Catholic priests.  There are some.  In fact, they were married before becoming Catholic priests.  The church has welcomed them as priests and their families into the fold. 

Orthodox priests can marry and have families.  Here comes the touchy part.  Occasionally one wishes to convert and join the Roman Catholic church.  These converts become Roman Catholic priests in good standing and get to keep their families too.  They are assigned to churches, say mass, hear confessions, and do everything that priests do. 

My question is, if the church is willing to accept some married priests, why will the church not allow other priests to marry? 


Ooooooops!



Peace and comfort,



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/31/2013 9:34:47 AM >

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 8:56:18 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		That`s a good one.....

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 3:10:52 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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Status: offline 		I took a vow of poverty when I opted to get into construction.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 3:12:02 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I too wish they would officially adress this. But sadly, I don't think that will ever happen unless priests are allowed to marry again. Funny how a single man, who's sole relationship experience is boiled down to a few self-inflicted hand-jobs or worse a pedophilic rape give marital advise to couples.....


There is a little known fact about married Roman Catholic priests.  There are some.  In fact, they were married before becoming Catholic priests.  The church has welcomed them as priests and their families into the fold. 

Orthodox priests can marry and have families.  Here comes the touchy part.  Occasionally one wishes to convert and join the Roman Catholic church.  These converts become Roman Catholic priests in good standing and get to keep their families too.  They are assigned to churches, say mass, hear confessions, and do everything that priests do. 

My question is, if the church is willing to accept some married priests, why will the church not allow other priests to marry? 


Too many little boys left to make marriage a viable option.

(in reply to peppermint)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:12:24 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningStar01

The Catholic Church declared communism as a "Deadly Sin" at the start of the 30th century. And they embraced Hitler and Fascism in the 30's...of course...we aren't supposed to know that as they are such little Angels...well ...when they have finshed fucking choir boys.



It did no such thing. We haven't even REACHED the 30th century. They also did not embrace Hitler. I think you need new "history" books.

Yes and no, the German Church was not exactly Hitler's enemy, and the Pope at the time of WWII had been papal legate to Germany and when Hitler came to power he sent letters back to Pious XI praising Hitler and the Nuremburg laws that stripped Jews of their citizenship, it is a very very tangled story. One of the things you have to remember if that the Church, along with a lot of politicians, saw Hitler as a bulwark against the USSR, the appeasement you saw in part was because they thought they could control Hitler, that he was a "Christian" leader and so forth. Churchill left the conservatives in large part because this was their game plan, and he bitterly opposed it (Read Manchester's "The Last Lion"). There was also tremendous anti semitism in the church, its leaders were not exactly friendly towards Jews, as an example when Germany floated the very serious plan of expelling the Jews to other countries, there was talk of settling them in the US, and Cardinal Spellman of NY, as well as several other top Catholic officials, basically told the FDR administration that if they did this, tried to 'settle the Christ Killers here", there would be political hell to pay.
The reality was the organized church, despite all the propaganda put out after the war, did very little to try and help the Jews, and they could have done a lot, Goldhagen in his book "A Moral Reckoning" talks about the history of it......

One of the down sides of the church is the only political system they truly opposed was communism, after the second world war they excommunicated any communist, but never excommunicated the many Catholics who were accused of complicity with the Germans, including those convicted at Nuremburg. In South America, with the oppression of military governments, the church basically sided with the military governments, several church officials in Argentina are implicated in the programs of hass disappearence that happened there, and the church suppressed liberation theology...

To paint the church as all evil is as bad as those that try to excuse its excesses, they are equally wrong. The Bishops in the US these days are assholes for the most part, all tied up in politics and turning the church into an auxiliary of the GOP, specifically in turning the church's teachings into being about abortion and against gays, but there are a lot of Catholics on the ground doing good, parishes that support LGBT people, support the poor, the nuns who got censored for helping the poor while *gasp* not speaking out on gay marriage and abortion; it is a church where a nun, seeing a young mother of several kids about to die because of being pregnant, and allowed an abortion to be performed to save the mom's life (which the asshole bishop excommunicated her for,not caring she saved 4 boys of not losing their mom). Catholic Charities does good work, as do a lot of other groups. There are groups that do charity I wouldn't give money to, like the knights of columbus, who collect money supposedly to help mentally retarded kids, and who in reality are bunch of nasty, blue collar, older white men who use the money they collect to try and force their backwards beliefs on others (the K of C dropped at least a million on Prop 8).

The problem with the church is the leadership, JPII and his successor dragged the church back into the pre Vatican II era, including embracing a Bishop who was a holocaust denier, and others who thought the old good friday service that demonizes Jews and blames them for Christ's death is okay.....

(in reply to searching4mysir)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:15:53 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningStar01

The Catholic Church declared communism as a "Deadly Sin" at the start of the 30th century. And they embraced Hitler and Fascism in the 30's...of course...we aren't supposed to know that as they are such little Angels...well ...when they have finshed fucking choir boys.



It did no such thing. We haven't even REACHED the 30th century. They also did not embrace Hitler. I think you need new "history" books.

The church excommunicated all communists, while after WWII they didn't excommunicate a single catholic accused of complicity with the Nazis, including more then a few convicted at Nuremburg. The church's official position is that it is compatible with any political system.

One less then stellar moment in church history, in the US a theologian argued that separation of church and state was a good thing for the church, that in the US it allowed Catholics to flourish (it is still the largest religious group in the country), for which he was silenced and threatened with excommunication. It was only in the 1970's, after Vatican II, that the vatican admitted that separation of church and state was a good thing.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:25:05 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
it amazes me to the point of humor when you see the surprise and shock of the media when reporting on this over the last two weeks.


It amazes me what passes for poverty and humility for a Pope. He used to cook his own meals! He drove his own car!



You need a perspective.

A cardinal of an archdiocese is the spiritual "leader" of often many millions of people. The equivalent place would be as a governor of one of your states, the leader of a small nation, the mayor of a supercity like New York, London or Shanghai; or the CEO of a very large corporation.

How many of your state governors still cook their own food or drive their own vehicles, or eschew the governor's palace to live in a small apartment as Pope Francis did, even as a cardinal?

And the equal in the way of a CEO certainly has limousines, and food handlers, and the opulent corporate mansions and penthouse condominiums.

A CEO didn't take vows of poverty, he is a spiritual leader, who is supposed to show his flock the way. What the new Pope seems to be doing is telling the hierarchy to be more concerned with helping the poor then leading luxurious lives themselves. As Christ's minister on earth, he should reflect that of Jesus, who after all, was homeless, had no possessions, and lived off the generosity of others. Yes, the Vatican is a state, but it is the seat of a religion that preaches that the poor are the truly blessed, that wealth means nothing, how does it look to some poor person in a Catholic country when he sees the cardinal driving in a limousine, living in a mansion, is he going to think the Cardinal cares about him? Or the Pope? It is like the CEO of a company in financial trouble who tells workers they need to lay off 10,000 workers, cut salaries and benefits, require longer hours, then they find out the COE had the company buy a luxury yacht so he could use it, it is called setting the tone (or that turd Roger Smith at GM, who cut workers salaries 500 bucks a month, and then said "Well, I am sacrificing too, I cut my salary by 500....he was making about 10 million, a typical worker about 40k).

He seems to be eschewing the trappings of the Papacy and refusing to relish in the power of it or setting himself above others, and that is refreshing. The Vatican in many ways is as corrupt as the Chinese government, it has all kinds of bureaucrats wielding power they shouldn't have, they are using the church to make very cushy lives for themselves, and he is saying whoa to that......part of the reason the church hasn't really done anything about the global abuse scandal is the Vatican has paralyzed such efforts, the Pope has been this person isolated away.

I don't agree with this Pope's positions on things, (not Catholic in any event), but I can appreciate what he is doing, he is setting a tone and saying we have work to do on this earth, and it isn't in being 'princess of the church, but rather prelates of the people. The Jesuits are interesting, they often were under the gun with the Inquisition and the traditionalists in their time, so having a Jesuit pope is interesting, it definitely is a big change.

(in reply to YN)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:33:10 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningStar01

Oh...on that note...who thinks that Catholic priests and nuns that have abused chilrdlen all around the world should have a cactuss stuck up their arse and told it is because the Holy Mother wishes it? I do.


Why limit it to Catholic priests and nuns? Why not ANYONE who has abused children around the world?


The priests and nuns are bad, but what you are leaving out is unlike other places where kids have been abused, the church is global, and the problem is with the church itself, in that its leaders covered this up and to this day still don't have a handle on it, Ratzinger before he resigned pretty much admitted that. All I invite you to do is look at the scope of the abuse and more importantly the coverup, and then ask yourself where is the accountability? To this day, a tiny handful, literally, of Bishops and cardinals have been removed from office for what they did. Mahony in LA recently was shown to have violated laws, by sending priests to states where therapists don't have to report child abusers, and the guy was still allowed to vote for the new pope. The Bishop in KC was convicted of covering for a pedophile priest in a trial (judge, not jury), and he is still Bishop of KC, the Bishop in Philadelphia had 50 priests serving who had credible abuse allegations against them, and he was allowed to retire with full benefits..and the list goes on. In Ireland, it makes the US look tame, they had more abuse cases total then in the US, when Ireland is 1/10th the US size, and it was as brutal and disgusting as it comes, brutality in the schools that the government let the church run, the infamous Magdelene laundried, the abuse in orphanages, you name it.....and the SOB's who did this stuff are still in power. I am surprised the Irish didn't revolt against their government and demand that the police and DA's departments be purged, because it was that bad, they colluded with the church.....

The point being, that the problem is global, these aren't isolated incidents, and the global church has basically really done nothing to make sure it doesn't happen again, their rules are basically useless and they protect their old boy network.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:35:54 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

I don't think that will ever happen unless priests are allowed to marry again.



Pedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children. They don't have an attraction to women. Getting married solves nothing. Besides there are hundreds, if not thousands, of married priests.

The difference would have been that the church, which is so desperate for priests, could be a lot more picky then they have been, they wouldn't have gone through the stupidity of recycling pedophile priests and wouldn't cover up the way they did. The church is in a quandry, the average age of a priest in the US is 70, and a lot of parishes don't even have priests. Not to mention that married priests would be a little better able to counsel couples or understand what it means to have a child molested; how the hell could JPII or Benedict understand what it means to sit and watch a child of theirs get hurt, for them it is all theory.

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RE: A pope practicing Humility? The Cardinals and bish... - 3/31/2013 7:41:37 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I too wish they would officially adress this. But sadly, I don't think that will ever happen unless priests are allowed to marry again. Funny how a single man, who's sole relationship experience is boiled down to a few self-inflicted hand-jobs or worse a pedophilic rape give marital advise to couples.....


There is a little known fact about married Roman Catholic priests.  There are some.  In fact, they were married before becoming Catholic priests.  The church has welcomed them as priests and their families into the fold. 

Orthodox priests can marry and have families.  Here comes the touchy part.  Occasionally one wishes to convert and join the Roman Catholic church.  These converts become Roman Catholic priests in good standing and get to keep their families too.  They are assigned to churches, say mass, hear confessions, and do everything that priests do. 

My question is, if the church is willing to accept some married priests, why will the church not allow other priests to marry? 

One of the prime reasons was the church didn't want any arguing over a priests possessions, the church wanted anything the priest had. Keep in mind that in medieval times, the scions of well off families would go into the priesthood,along with the military or ruling if they were the eldest. These men would have family wealth, and the church would not want it going to surviving family members. Keep in mind that the celibacy thing was a bit of a joke, even back then, both priests and the hierarchy often had mistresses, and it wasn't even hidden very well. The other thing the church argues is that a priest would be distracted by a family, but most of the other faiths allow married clergy, Jews actually I believe make it part of being a Rabbi or at least strongly encourage it, and ministers and priests in other sects marry. I suspect too they worry about the extra costs, for health insurance and housing for the family.

(in reply to peppermint)
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