RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty?

RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Real0ne -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 8:32:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne and if those peeople knew how to fight them not one of them would have been able to be foreclosed because its all based in fraud. I posted one of the main cases in my america the banana republic thread. Many fought successfully by demanding that someone produce the original Note. also no standing, robosigners, securitizing. if you can find a truly equitable court there is almost no way they can win. of course the ice breaking judges get shot, arizona.

Real0ne -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 8:37:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Sorry Rich, Bono never "did it for me", and neither did that video. Did you take a look at the 3 minute video I posted? Did you read about the middle aged woman living in tent city who lost a great paying job when her job was outsourced to China? blame who for that? the chinese can use their own raw materials, build a 1 horse pump ship it here and sell it for 50 bucks and you pay 400 here for very little if much extra quality. often worse. in so far as electronics are concerned, china is giving us what we want, america forces a mob service package at 40 bucks a month with all their shit. Not to mention if you buy a lawn mower companies have to instal brains on them to think for the idiots who use them. any wonder people are buying chinese?

Marini -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:01:48 PM)
quote: Maybe I'm too simple of a man to understand the vast complexities of the financial world. But honestly, I like "follow the money" as a simple answer to a lot of things. In this case, the answer is "the job creators" are causing poverty. There is a tiny segment of the American population which is getting richer. Everyone else is getting poorer. The ones who are getting richer also conveniently happen to be the ones who were already rich (which equates to powerful). You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. I totally agree. Greedy soulless corporate bastards who only care about the bottom line are to blame. Now we will all deal with the resulting consequences. Most of the millions of jobs we lost, were never replaced. Many of the "new" jobs that have been created are part time, and often pay minimum or slightly above minimum wages so those people often need assistance. Many of the people living in shelters in Northern Virginia, HAVE JOBS, they can't afford to get into an apartment. History will record how well America was doing in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. Then how we outsourced most of the good paying jobs and look at what we now have left. THIS

MrRodgers -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Jeff, what is preventing those without a job from starting a company? It could be as simple as being an area handyman, could it not? Your basic plant maintenance man with some years under his belt in that position would have lots of skills and knowledge about mechanics and such. A hotel maintenance guy would make an even better home handyman. Shovel snow. Landscape. Is it too much to ask someone to create your own job if one isn't available? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs started in their garages. Will it be easy? No. Will it be easier to prosper compared to sitting around and moping? Yeah. Start a damn janitorial service and clean houses or after-hours office cleaning. Shit, man, there are lots of things for people to do. Starting a company without capital is not going to save the house that was foreclosed or pay the credit card debt that was accumulated. People were over their heads in debt when they were let go from jobs in 2008/2009. Many of them middle aged or near retirement age with their 401Ks shattered. Gates and Jobs had the benefit of a rising economy in the '80s and families who provided them home, food and clothing. Neither of them had a family to support or a mortgage to pay. Neither of them had any real world responsibilities. Unrealistic comparison, DS. Gates never did anything and didn't even need a garage. Licensed rather than sold software to IBM he didn't even own (easily the biggest corporate fuck-up of the 20th century) and all because [they] were hot-to-trot to compete with the Mac. Then IBM set the PC platform which resulted in the beginning of the end of the PC business for them. Gates then exploited the benefits of an OS monopoly. Took the mouse from Xerox labs (they didn't think it would be that useful in yet another ignorant corp. move) and in yet another amazingly lucky scenario had a court say that the interactive desktop 'was not proprietary Apple software.' Gates truly won the business lottery of all time...twice. Jobs was a great marketer and device niche exploiter. But did have a much harder time and did in fact create and industry.

Real0ne -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:11:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: Maybe I'm too simple of a man to understand the vast complexities of the financial world. But honestly, I like "follow the money" as a simple answer to a lot of things. In this case, the answer is "the job creators" are causing poverty. There is a tiny segment of the American population which is getting richer. Everyone else is getting poorer. The ones who are getting richer also conveniently happen to be the ones who were already rich (which equates to powerful). You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. I totally agree. Greedy soulless corporate bastards who only care about the bottom line are to blame. Now we will all deal with the resulting consequences. Most of the millions of jobs we lost, were never replaced. Many of the "new" jobs that have been created are part time, and often pay minimum or slightly above minimum wages so those people often need assistance. History will record how well America was doing in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. Then how we outsourced most of the good paying jobs and look at what we now have left. THIS what about th4e greedy souless people who demand gub services and entitlements that raise our taxes instead of nipping the problem in the butt and getting deeper into the wallets of the 1% and those exporting money?

MrRodgers -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:18:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: Marini What is causing the sharp rise in poverty in the suburbs? Maybe I'm too simple of a man to understand the vast complexities of the financial world. But honestly, I like "follow the money" as a simple answer to a lot of things. In this case, the answer is "the job creators" are causing poverty. There is a tiny segment of the American population which is getting richer. Everyone else is getting poorer. The ones who are getting richer also conveniently happen to be the ones who were already rich (which equates to powerful). You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. Jeff, what is preventing those without a job from starting a company? It could be as simple as being an area handyman, could it not? Your basic plant maintenance man with some years under his belt in that position would have lots of skills and knowledge about mechanics and such. A hotel maintenance guy would make an even better home handyman. Shovel snow. Landscape. Is it too much to ask someone to create your own job if one isn't available? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs started in their garages. Will it be easy? No. Will it be easier to prosper compared to sitting around and moping? Yeah. Start a damn janitorial service and clean houses or after-hours office cleaning. Shit, man, there are lots of things for people to do. Typically during recessions in the past in the first year approx. 600,000 new businesses are started, creating about 1.2 million jobs. Then over the 2nd year another 5-600,000 jobs from created demand from those first 600,000 businesses created in the first year. This time, most of the lending for these businesses has dried up. Far fewer new businesses are created and far fewer new jobs.

Real0ne -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:28:04 PM)
yeh they call it a recession, its the business cycle however. purely planned. for those who see it they can plan accordingly, those who dont, well they are out on the street right now. There is a nice a nice pay off for those who believe in conspiracy theories. (as they are naively called by some) LOL The federal reserve was advertised to get rid of that, and all they did is move it from a zero sum game (most beneficial to the people) to an increasing inflation game, (most beneficial to banksters) and we still have the same boom bust shit we had before the federal reserve existed!

Marini -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:36:31 PM)
With so many viewing this thread, it makes me want to post one of my favorite oldie but goodie links. Yes folks, I have been talking about outsourcing for many, many years. Outsourcing is tantamount to slavery here in the United States. Here is a great short link by Norma Sherry who wrote many great articles about outsourcing years ago. Bye Bye Ms. American Pie/ How Outsourcing is Tantamount to Slavery As we see more and more tent cities popping up in America, I hope they are as nice as the one in Lakewood NJ.

DesideriScuri -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:40:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Jeff, what is preventing those without a job from starting a company? It could be as simple as being an area handyman, could it not? Your basic plant maintenance man with some years under his belt in that position would have lots of skills and knowledge about mechanics and such. A hotel maintenance guy would make an even better home handyman. Shovel snow. Landscape. Is it too much to ask someone to create your own job if one isn't available? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs started in their garages. Will it be easy? No. Will it be easier to prosper compared to sitting around and moping? Yeah. Start a damn janitorial service and clean houses or after-hours office cleaning. Shit, man, there are lots of things for people to do. Starting a company without capital is not going to save the house that was foreclosed or pay the credit card debt that was accumulated. People were over their heads in debt when they were let go from jobs in 2008/2009. Many of them middle aged or near retirement age with their 401Ks shattered. Gates and Jobs had the benefit of a rising economy in the '80s and families who provided them home, food and clothing. Neither of them had a family to support or a mortgage to pay. Neither of them had any real world responsibilities. Unrealistic comparison, DS. Perhaps not an apples to apples comparison, but it's apples to pomes at the very least. How much capital do you need to turn a wrench? Any laid off maintenance guy will likely have his own tools at home (and will have a shitload if his former employer required him to provide his own tools). People over their heads in debt would be the fault of who? You head out and start doing something for someone in exchange for money. How much capital does it take to start mowing lawns or cleaning a house?

Marini -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:44:32 PM)
quote: People over their heads in debt would be the fault of who? You head out and start doing something for someone in exchange for money. How much capital does it take to start mowing lawns or cleaning a house? Not sure where you are located, but in my area the Hispanics both legal and illegal have the lawn care, construction and housekeeping jobs nailed down. Any more bright ideas for great paying jobs and careers for the displaced? America used to be a pretty good country to live in. It is hard for ME, to watch the quality of life declining for many Americans, and the country as I used to remember it, sliding downhill. Peace and [sm=goodnight.gif]

Real0ne -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/28/2013 9:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini With so many viewing this thread, it makes me want to post one of my favorite oldie but goodie links. Yes folks, I have been talking about outsourcing for many, many years. Outsourcing is tantamount to slavery here in the United States. Here is a great short link by Norma Sherry who wrote many great articles about outsourcing years ago. Bye Bye Ms. American Pie/ How Outsourcing is Tantamount to Slavery As we see more and more tent cities popping up in America, I hope they are as nice as the one in Lakewood NJ. tantamount to and slavery are 2 different things. we have slavery the good old fashioned way. people think of old south and chains and there is another type that is just as valid and devastating. its called a BOND SLAVE. any child born today has a 40,000 buck debt of its parents to pay the second its crying ass hits the table! bond slavery, alive and well in the uk of a oh and you cant get out of it either, even if you expatriate, because not only does it apply to the "citizen" but to the inhabitants and american nationals and indians and resident aliens. no redress no where to go. PLACEBO

DesideriScuri -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 4:47:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: People over their heads in debt would be the fault of who? You head out and start doing something for someone in exchange for money. How much capital does it take to start mowing lawns or cleaning a house? Not sure where you are located, but in my area the Hispanics both legal and illegal have the lawn care, construction and housekeeping jobs nailed down. Any more bright ideas for great paying jobs and careers for the displaced? Not sure what your skills are, Marini. Everybody is different. Have a hammer? Have a saw? No one in your community willing to help a friend rather than hiring those already established? Any ability to cook? Wouldn't any of that be better than relying on people who aren't hiring? Or Government? quote: America used to be a pretty good country to live in. It is hard for ME, to watch the quality of life declining for many Americans, and the country as I used to remember it, sliding downhill. Peace and [sm=goodnight.gif] America is still damn fine country to live in. I feel so bad that you can't see that. The only reason the quality of life is dropping is because people aren't even living the American Dream. And, what is the American Dream? Isn't the Dream the opportunity to make something of yourself? I think the problem was that people lowered their targets. Are you shooting for the clouds, the moon, or the stars? "If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." -- Zig Ziglar

vincentML -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 5:54:21 AM)
quote: Perhaps not an apples to apples comparison, but it's apples to pomes at the very least. How much capital do you need to turn a wrench? Any laid off maintenance guy will likely have his own tools at home (and will have a shitload if his former employer required him to provide his own tools). And what of the 60 year old mortgage clerk whose company went bust or the 55 year old secretary whose 401K Plan was invested in her bankrupt company? What of the 60 year old whose corporation took advantage of the economic downturn and "disappeared" his job slot? What sort of tools do these folks have to go out and start "doing something for exchange of money?" whilst their medical plan has been suspended, their house payments are in arrears, and their electricity has been disconnected? quote: People over their heads in debt would be the fault of who? You head out and start doing something for someone in exchange for money. How much capital does it take to start mowing lawns or cleaning a house? It requires human capital. The capital that comes with youth and strong muscles. And how many jobless people with homes in America are free of mortgages? Isn't that part of the American Dream? To be an Owner? How many had $250K to purchase their homes for cash outright? And who would do that when the whole idea of owning a home is to leverage bank money encouraged by federal tax write offs? quote: The only reason the quality of life is dropping is because people aren't even living the American Dream. And, what is the American Dream? Isn't the Dream the opportunity to make something of yourself? I think the problem was that people lowered their targets. Are you shooting for the clouds, the moon, or the stars? SOME people are unable to live the American Dream because of the felonious behavior of bankers and mortgage companies who bundled mortgages, rigged their credit ratings, and then wagered against them, leading us into a systemic failure that nearly crashed the entire economy. I fear yours is a narrow understanding of who suffered in the great credit failure.

tweakabelle -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 8:52:22 AM)
While urban poverty in the USA has some distinctive features, urban poverty can be found in just about any city of consequence anywhere in the world. Urban poverty has been with us since we began living in towns and cities. It is facile in the extreme to suggest that the responsibility for a phenomenon that has lasted across the ages, and across cultures can laid at the door of the individuals living in deprived conditions, due to their alleged lack of industry and "responsibility". A host of factors (such as education levels, skill levels, health status, family situation, the overall state of the economy, decline of traditional industries, to name just a few) clearly play a role in creating and maintaining urban poverty. Many of these factors are completely beyond the individual's ability to control. No doubt some bright spark will claim sooner or later that the "poor asked for it".

MrRodgers -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 9:30:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne yeh they call it a recession, its the business cycle however. purely planned. for those who see it they can plan accordingly, those who dont, well they are out on the street right now. There is a nice a nice pay off for those who believe in conspiracy theories. (as they are naively called by some) LOL The federal reserve was advertised to get rid of that, and all they did is move it from a zero sum game (most beneficial to the people) to an increasing inflation game, (most beneficial to banksters) and we still have the same boom bust shit we had before the federal reserve existed! Well yea except two more things involved. The business cycle so-called is as much a human cycle. Over building when times are good and under producing when times are tough. The other is the discount to equities, properties and production all taken advantage of by those rich enough to do so. The first glaring and extreme opportunity was the 1907 bank panic. It is called on those aspects...deflation. The boom & busts we had before the fed was caused by either the chaotic corrupt free lance banking of the 19th century or the Bank of England and their manipulation of pounds sterling before the revolution.

Marini -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 9:43:35 AM)
quote: Not sure what your skills are, Marini. Everybody is different. Have a hammer? Have a saw? No one in your community willing to help a friend rather than hiring those already established? Any ability to cook? Wouldn't any of that be better than relying on people who aren't hiring? Or Government? I sometimes get things wrong around here, so I am not going to be harsh. THIS OP is not about ME, I have a good job and I am doing just fine. You might want to go back and READ the OP again. This OP is about suburban poverty, people struggling, displaced and homeless. America is still damn fine country to live in. I feel so bad that you can't see that. The only reason the quality of life is dropping is because people aren't even living the American Dream. And, what is the American Dream? Isn't the Dream the opportunity to make something of yourself? I think the problem was that people lowered their targets. Are you shooting for the clouds, the moon, or the stars? I am a proud American citizen, that happens to love my country. THAT is why it is sad to me, to see so many people struggling. I think the fact that I love my country and can SEE the changes, the decline in the quality of life, and the increasing lack of opportunities for many people, is what makes it hard. I joke all the time, about how you could look for a job, in the 80s and early 90s and get 4-5 job's the next week. The majority of the millions of jobs that were outsourced to other countries, were never replaced with similiar jobs paying similiar wages. Many of the new jobs these days are minimum wage or barely above it. THESE are the facts, not my opinions. Everyone does not have the "blinders" on that you do. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Have a great day!

Marini -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 10:37:17 AM)
quote: It is facile in the extreme to suggest that the responsibility for a phenomenon that has lasted across the ages, and across cultures can laid at the door of the individuals living in deprived conditions, due to their alleged lack of industry and "responsibility". A host of factors (such as education levels, skill levels, health status, family situation, the overall state of the economy, decline of traditional industries, to name just a few) clearly play a role in creating and maintaining urban poverty. Many of these factors are completely beyond the individual's ability to control. No doubt some bright spark will claim sooner or later that the "poor asked for it". Hiya tweaky, We have already had a bright spark, that suggests that all they need to do is find someone they can cook for, or mow their lawns. It's really just that easy, and the issues of suburban poverty will be solved. [;)]

DesideriScuri -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 11:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle While urban poverty in the USA has some distinctive features, urban poverty can be found in just about any city of consequence anywhere in the world. Urban poverty has been with us since we began living in towns and cities. It is facile in the extreme to suggest that the responsibility for a phenomenon that has lasted across the ages, and across cultures can laid at the door of the individuals living in deprived conditions, due to their alleged lack of industry and "responsibility". A host of factors (such as education levels, skill levels, health status, family situation, the overall state of the economy, decline of traditional industries, to name just a few) clearly play a role in creating and maintaining urban poverty. Many of these factors are completely beyond the individual's ability to control. No doubt some bright spark will claim sooner or later that the "poor asked for it". Tweak, this thread isn't about urban poverty. It's about suburban poverty, which tends to not be the same. In suburban poverty, you are more likely to have the one-affluent among the ranks of the poor, compared to the urban poverty population. I believe TheHeretic started a thread about urban poverty. And, to put it out there, I don't disagree your allegations about the urban poor. It's just not what we're discussing here.

DesideriScuri -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 11:19:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: Not sure what your skills are, Marini. Everybody is different. Have a hammer? Have a saw? No one in your community willing to help a friend rather than hiring those already established? Any ability to cook? Wouldn't any of that be better than relying on people who aren't hiring? Or Government? I sometimes get things wrong around here, so I am not going to be harsh. THIS OP is not about ME, I have a good job and I am doing just fine. You might want to go back and READ the OP again. This OP is about suburban poverty, people struggling, displaced and homeless. America is still damn fine country to live in. I feel so bad that you can't see that. The only reason the quality of life is dropping is because people aren't even living the American Dream. And, what is the American Dream? Isn't the Dream the opportunity to make something of yourself? I think the problem was that people lowered their targets. Are you shooting for the clouds, the moon, or the stars? I am a proud American citizen, that happens to love my country. THAT is why it is sad to me, to see so many people struggling. I think the fact that I love my country and can SEE the changes, the decline in the quality of life, and the increasing lack of opportunities for many people, is what makes it hard. I joke all the time, about how you could look for a job, in the 80s and early 90s and get 4-5 job's the next week. The majority of the millions of jobs that were outsourced to other countries, were never replaced with similiar jobs paying similiar wages. Many of the new jobs these days are minimum wage or barely above it. THESE are the facts, not my opinions. Everyone does not have the "blinders" on that you do. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Have a great day! LMMFAO!! I have blinders? I was not saying you're among those living in poverty at all. Do you know better what your skills are or what a suburban poor person's skills are? I suppose I should have started out by recommending you put yourself in their situation. When I came across and said I didn't know what your skills were, it wouldn't have been misunderstood. Cite your "facts," please. You made a claim about minimum wage jobs, which I handily debunked, with facts and at least one link, IIRC. And since, you've changed your claim to "minimum wage or barely above it." I laugh at your "blinders" accusation, too. I suppose I should just enjoy my life of having my resume out there without getting any interview opportunities and look back at my nearly 3½ years of being out of work as having it made, right? For much of that time, I was not out looking for a job, mind you. The skills I have don't translate into high paying jobs, at least not with the letters currently behind my name. So, I'm back in school, getting more skills and letters. Why? So I'm more marketable. If I had to, I'd lift myself off my fat ass (speaking of me, not anyone else) and start doing stuff for money. Blinders, my ass.

cordeliasub -> RE: What Causes Suburban Poverty? (3/29/2013 11:42:12 AM)
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but the first thing I thought of was all the people I know who moved to the suburbs, bought a house they could never afford, and maxed out their credit cards living above their means......

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625