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ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but the first thing I thought of was all the people I know who moved to the suburbs, bought a house they could never afford, and maxed out their credit cards living above their means......

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
SOME people are unable to live the American Dream because of the felonious behavior of bankers and mortgage companies who bundled mortgages, rigged their credit ratings, and then wagered against them, leading us into a systemic failure that nearly crashed the entire economy.
I fear yours is a narrow understanding of who suffered in the great credit failure.

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Of all the people that you know that moved out to the suburbs, how many of them have marketable skills that could be traded for money (that is, legally offer a service in exchange for monetary gain)?

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LMMFAO!! I have blinders? I was not saying you're among those living in poverty at all. Do you know better what your skills are or what a suburban poor person's skills are? I suppose I should have started out by recommending you put yourself in their situation. When I came across and said I didn't know what your skills were, it wouldn't have been misunderstood.

Cite your "facts," please. You made a claim about minimum wage jobs, which I handily debunked, with facts and at least one link, IIRC. And since, you've changed your claim to "minimum wage or barely above it."

I laugh at your "blinders" accusation, too. I suppose I should just enjoy my life of having my resume out there without getting any interview opportunities and look back at my nearly 3½ years of being out of work as having it made, right? For much of that time, I was not out looking for a job, mind you. The skills I have don't translate into high paying jobs, at least not with the letters currently behind my name. So, I'm back in school, getting more skills and letters. Why? So I'm more marketable. If I had to, I'd lift myself off my fat ass (speaking of me, not anyone else) and start doing stuff for money.

Blinders, my ass.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

Poverty in the suburbs is growing at an alarming rate.

I have seen coverage on both t.v. and in print, about this increasing phenomena lately.

What is "causing" this alarming and rapidly growing rate of poverty in the suburbs?

NBC In Plain Sight- Poverty hits America's Suburbs

Money MSn- Now Suburbia is where the poor are

I caught this on t.v. just the other night.
This is a short "must see" video link below! *Inside NJ tent city.*

*Inside NJ Tent City*/ Ocean County Suburban Homeless Tent City Community

Million dollar question, "Why are these people homeless?"
Shades of Tom Joad and one of my old favorites the Grapes of Wrath!
The Joads did not have a piano like that one on the old truck.

What is causing the sharp rise in poverty in the suburbs?

Could it be............. a lack of jobs?
Specifically "well paying" jobs?

Well butter my biscuit, that might be it!
[sm=idea.gif]

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ORIGINAL: Marini


I joke all the time, about how you could look for a job, in the 80s and early 90s and get 4-5 job's the next week.
The majority of the millions of jobs that were outsourced to other countries, were never replaced with similiar jobs paying similiar wages.
Many of the new jobs these days are minimum wage or barely above it.
THESE are the facts, not my opinions.

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Tweak, this thread isn't about urban poverty. It's about suburban poverty, which tends to not be the same.

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There is a joke I make all the time too, Mari. If work is so good for you, why do they have to pay you to do it? The answer is, because most jobs just flat suck. Those outsourced manufacturing job you speak of with such nostalgia might have paid a living wage, but they were horrible ways to spend your life.

I wound up on assembly lines a few times, back when I was temping in college, and two days was the most I could stand. I'll often suggest people read Ben Hamper's book, "Rivethead," regarding that particular variety of slow brain death. It's something you do, so your kids won't have to. It's been a while, since the global economy kicked in, and there is a whole wide world of people, eager to do something lousy all day long, so their kids won't have to.

Technology has moved forward as well. I caught a video the other day, that included some footage of the US based Tesla factory, where the electric cars are built. Robots, and not a human in sight. That is the future of manufacturing, like it or not. The employment sector isn't coming back. Those who cannot adapt, are pretty much screwed.

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First off, I noted that all the links you started with were quite recent, while people have been losing their jobs and homes in the 'burbs since the economy tanked. Add Vince providing us with the article containing a brand new scary buzzword ("Zombie" houses? Seriously? Could it scream "focus-group tested" any louder?), and the first thing I'm thinking is that we have ourselves an organized fear campaign. Some power that be is thinking it's in their interest to put this on the table.

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To specifically answer the question of your title, my answer is the same as to the urban poverty poll and thread. What causes it is a combination of the social structure and the forces of big money, people who fucked themselves, and plain old bad luck.

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Another problem, when it comes to the unemployed building their own job, and their own business, is regulatory. Got a business license? A contractors license? In the union? Insured and bonded? Got all your workman's comp insurance and inspections up to date? Filling out all your tax forms and reports? What are they gonna do to Jesus from Honduras? Deport him twice?

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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Tweak, this thread isn't about urban poverty. It's about suburban poverty, which tends to not be the same.

Sorry I didn't realise that distinction was being applied so strictly.
Nonetheless, I believe my overall point remains valid. Many of the main factors contributing to poverty, urban or suburban, are beyond the ability of individuals to control. For example, individuals aren't able to influence the overall economic climate, they aren't able to influence where new jobs are created, nor are they able to influence the skills required for those new positions where they exist.
There is a discussion about whether some businesses are too big to be allowed to fail. It's quite a separate thing when we are dealing with people - the logics that might apply to commercial enterprises don't apply to individuals or families. The social/economic cost of allowing the middle classes to fail is catastrophe on a national scale. One of the reasons that governments exist is to safeguard the interests of the middle class people. If the government fails in this task, its future is limited to the next election, where it can safely anticipate electoral wipe out. So whatever merit your arguments have when applied to corporations and large businesses, they have little or no merit when applied to individuals and the middle classes in general.
It's bad enough that corporations are regarded as people under US law. That shouldn't mean that Americans are treated in precisely the same manner as corporations are when the economy slumps. The factors contributing to suburban poverty, the social outcomes, and the cost of failure are of a wholly different order.

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You will have less low/no skill people in the suburbs. You will tend to have higher income in suburban families. You will tend to also have a higher level of education attained. All those things add up to people tending towards having a much greater earning potential, an easier time finding higher paying jobs, and more marketable skills.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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You will have less low/no skill people in the suburbs. You will tend to have higher income in suburban families. You will tend to also have a higher level of education attained. All those things add up to people tending towards having a much greater earning potential, an easier time finding higher paying jobs, and more marketable skills.

Research does not support your paradigm, DS.
The number of unemployed men between 45 and 54 years old has grown faster than any other age group nationally, an Enquirer analysis of federal data finds. Nearly 1.1 million middle-aged men were jobless in that category in November – more than double the number from two years earlier. Compared with a decade ago, the number has risen 181 percent.[SNIP]
And an increased number of unemployed, older workers has potential implications far beyond that age group.
Middle-aged workers typically have higher incomes and spending habits, as well as more dependents and debt, than the population as a whole.
"They have kids going to college, they have car loans, et cetera, so the impact is greater," says Andrew Sum, an economics professor and director of Northeastern University’s Center for Labor Market Studies in Boston.[SNIP]
Northeastern’s Sum says that, statistically, older workers have a harder time getting a new job after being laid off in the first place.
"And when they do, they suffer the greatest wage decreases compared with workers of other ages," he says.
The ‘social-networking’ era
Job-training expert Scott Henderson says many laid-off middle managers also aren’t equipped to compete with younger workers who are more technologically savvy.
"Many of these folks haven’t adapted to the new way of doing things with things like (social networking Web sites) LinkedIn and Facebook," says Henderson, who runs Forest Park-based career training and counseling center Protrain & True North Career Services. SOURCE

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Y'know, Vince, a few months back, I helped an old buddy from the service move to his new house. 25 years ago, he and I were human heavy equipment. As we were shifting the motorcycle lift into its new garage, I commented that it didn't seem like this shit hurt quite so much back then. He agreed, and said something any displaced middle-aged worker should keep in the front of their mind.

Yeah, it hurts more, but we've got better tools now, and don't make so many dumb mistakes.

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People with experience, developed skills, and more education will have an easier time finding high paying jobs than someone with not experienced in those jobs, with no developed skills for those jobs, and without the education required for those jobs.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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People with experience, developed skills, and more education will have an easier time finding high paying jobs than someone with not experienced in those jobs, with no developed skills for those jobs, and without the education required for those jobs.

Well, given those conditions . . . of course.

But given equal education levels the article suggests that corporations are opting for younger workers for less pay and NOT rehiring the 35-45 yr old middle managers. Also the younger worker has the advantage of being tuned in to the new social media. Thus, middle agers have to settle for lesser paying jobs if they can get them. And all that leads to the tragedy of suburban poverty with so many foreclosures.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
[:)] Well, I wish nothing but good luck to displaced middle-age workers.