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njlauren -> RE: It's Just so Scary -- Adam Lanza (4/2/2013 8:25:18 PM)
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ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic
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ORIGINAL: Nosathro
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ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic
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ORIGINAL: cloudboy
It's like pouring water on a rock.
No it isn't. At least with time, pouring water on a rock, the rock can be worn away. That happened in the past when gun owners tried to appease the anti-American crowd. The NRA punked out and 1994 AWB passed, and still it was not enough for the anti-American crowd. They only wanted more and more and more.
So now the Pro-RKBA crowd is unwilling to surrender on any front and the anti-American crowd is unwilling to offer compromise, real compromise. Oh they have their demands but they offer nothing in exchange. Plenty on the anti-American side have been found out or have admitted to wanting to do away with private gun ownership completely so even talking with them is a complete waste of time.
Pro-RKBA folks are starting to realize that even having a dialog with the anti-American crowd is dangerous. The best thing they can do is donate money to RKBA efforts and avoid donating money to charities that fuel anti-American populaces. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. Between the NRA, SAF, and couple different legal funds out of Colorado and New York I donate a hundred bucks a month. If Dems weren't so perverse in trying to destroy the 2nd Amendment I would be donating that money to starving children but I can't because of the Dems.
So no it's not like pouring water on a rock, but instead on a tree sapling.
It's like pouring water on a sapling of liberty.
quote:
RKBA
You show no evidence to support your claims and just because someone or group believe differently then you does not make them Anti-American, it is called Democracy.
In 1994, the NRA unsuccessfully opposed the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, but successfully lobbied for the ban's 2004 expiration.
Richard Feldman (2011). Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist. John Wiley. p. 209. Richard Feldman was an Executive Director of the NRA, later Independent Firearm Owners Association President.
Freedom of speech, or the freedom of expression, is recognized in international and regional human rights law. The right is enshrined in Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, Article 13 of the American Convention on Human Rights and Article 9 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights.[7] Based on John Milton's arguments, freedom of speech is understood as a multi-faceted right that includes not only the right to express, or disseminate, information and ideas, but three further distinct aspects:
• the right to seek information and ideas;
• the right to receive information and ideas;
• the right to impart information and ideas
So, by your statement, Neo-Nazis, Communists, and Socialists aren't anti-American, good to know. Yes people can have different opinions in America, but that doesn't mean all opinions are Pro-American. I also have the right to view and label certain people with their ideals as anti-American. I don't have the right under the rule of law to kill, harm, threaten, or harass those with opinions I find disgusting. If I did have the right there'd be a lot dead pedophiles and rapists among others. Not with guns mind you, they're too relatively ineffective. So long as the rule of law prevails, we are all entitled to our opinions.
Jesus, what decade are you living in? Neo Nazia?Communists? Socialists even? Think the red menace is under every bed? Or is it the black helicopters and the new world order? One of the most cherished things we have in America is the right to dissent , to express differing ideas, frame things in different ways and see what comes out of it. The country despite what the NRA wants to claim didn't become great because of all these Sarah Palin, "real American' types, what made this country great was we had mavericks, the right to speak our mind, and that is fundamental to this country, and claiming because someone holds differing views doesn't make them unamerican, despite what the idiot right has tried to claim. Speaking out and protesting is un-america or anti american, it is as American as they come. The founding fathers considered words to be the biggest weapon people had to keep the country free, much more so then weapons, I can guarantee you that, the people who wrote the constitution for the most part were men of words and deeds. Quite frankly, if you look at dictatorships like the USSR or Nazi Germany, you want to know how they stopped dissent? They labelled anyone who challenged them as "anti the state" or "anti the fatherland" and the mass of good patriotic citizens went along with it, like the idiot sheep in "Animal Farm" (Four legs good, two legs better!). BTW, a socialist can be a good American, Socialism is an economic system, not a political one, and there have been plenty of Socialist democracies, in places like France. Doesn't mean it is a great economic system, but Nazi Germany was capitalist, does that mean it was a good thing because it was capitalist? Reducing tough discussions down to sound bites is part of the problem in this country, it is true of guns, where some hold the line all guns are evil and let's ban them, and then we have the NRA (who basically is the lobbying arm of the gun industry), saying let's have the wild west out there, people want teflon bullets? Sure. They want talon bullets or dum dums? Sure. Heck, why not let every citizen have a .20 caliber machine gun? Sadly, what a lot of this boils down to isn't the 2nd amendment or rational ownership of guns, it is basically about greed. The gun manufacturers have tried to sell guns, not as a tool, but as a status symbol, every John Rambo should get his cool looking AR15 or AA12 assault shotgun, and they are making a lot of money off it, and the sad part is people are needlessly dying over greed.
The irony is 30 years ago we were fighting over handgun registration, the high powered/high fire rate 'assault weapons' really didnt' exist, that came about when a new arms industry formed, complete with a propaganda division to tell people civilization would fall apart if they didn't have guns. The irony is that crime rates compared to 30 years ago have fallen according to the FBI, and it isn't because more people are armed (lower percentages of people own guns now than did then). Guns are a tool, and one that I think there is a legitimate claim for, I wouldn't argue against having guns in rural alaska or places like wyoming or Montana where you have to worry about bears and such, but in a country that is getting to be less and less rural, there also need to be rational gun laws to stop it from turning into a slaughterhouse or into the wild west. Among other things, we have to stop it where 70% of the guns pulled off the streets in use by criminals were originally legally purchased, what that says is that gun ownership is treated too lightly, that it allows too many loopholes and too easy for the wrong people to get guns. Take those guns that came from legal sources out of the picture, and the cost of black market guns will go through the roof. I think my word to gun owners is that demanding unlimited access to guns, being able to walk into a gun store and buy what you want like buying candy, in the end is going to lead to your worst nightmare, because at some point the crap is going to hit the fan, and the second amendment won't protect you. Picture a day where we start seeing more and more mass shootings like we saw in Newtown, and picture the kind of rage like you saw after 9/11, and imagine what could happen.
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