M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (Full Version)

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alhamdullilah -> M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 3:58:35 AM)

I'll try to make this brief. Had a hard time determining where to post. BDSM Discussion just didn't seem quite right somehow. I was trained as a kajira, a Gorean lifestyle slave. I still remember much of the protocol - and I even miss it a little. However, the Man who has been my Dominant for quite some time is not Gorean. He is considering collaring me and I want to beg his collar. I think of that in Gorean terms somewhat but it's all I know. He does appreciate and value protocol just not the Gorean lifestyle overall.

We are D/s, working toward M/s - 24/7. I'm not concerned about what happens after. He could decide he isn't ready to collar me - that's okay. I really want to do this and make it meaningful. I'll try to find the right time, naturally.

It's always been my intention to formally beg his collar. I have drafted a letter I'm still working on (which may be too long) but what I'm seeking here is advice. I chose this forum because I thought perhaps someone might have suggestions on what to include and/or do, based on what they would appreciate on the receiving end of the plea.

This is like the most important letter I've ever written (we've been off and on for six years, so this is a big deal) and I want to do more than just give him a letter that I only hope isn't too long and includes what's most important to express. Do I just fall back on my Gorean "upbringing" and present myself naked in the proper position for begging collar and give him the letter?

Funny thing- just occurred to me that it's like the opposite of being a guy trying to figure out a clever, very special way of going about a marriage proposal, isn't it?

I know not everyone does this sort of thing but there must be lifestylers with suggestions or fantasies that might help me. Do I go for something creative or use a traditional approach (and what's traditional among non-Gorean lifestylers??)

I'm so tired, this may not make any sense! It's so late. And this is totally inarticulate (but we're going out tonight to discuss the relationship) so input and ideas, suggestions, experiences, fantasies, etc. will be MUCH appreciated!!

Thank you!!
~llilah



UllrsIshtar -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 4:21:46 AM)

Not to burst your bubble, but the first thing you need to consider is if he even would want you to beg his collar. Lost of Dominants like to take the initiative when it comes to handing out a collar, or initiating a M/s relationship, and wouldn't respond positively to the sub taking the lead in such an important event. Are you sure he isn't such a man?

If you don't think he is, I'd evaluate what kind of style he generally prefers.

Is he high protocol? - Then a Gorean style submission may work very well.
Is he more casual? - Then it could be as simple as telling him you want to talk to him.
Does he like romance? - Then what about a candle light dinner?
Is he into a particular type of play, like puppy play? - Then tie into his kink by, for example, crawling to him with a leash between your teeth and dropping it at his feet for him to put on you.

If you want more specific ideas than that, you're going to have to tell us a lot more about this man, because what you're trying to do is make this intimate and personal (otherwise you could just email him the letter) and we can't tell you how to create intimate moments with a person we know nothing about.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 4:59:39 AM)

quote:

It's always been my intention to formally beg his collar. I


Why?

Anyone who thinks relationships progress b/c someone demanded that it do so, or begged to have it do so, is living a fantasy I personally am never going to buy into.

To me, begging for a collar is totally counter intuitive to (what is supposed to be) a power exchange relationship.

When Himself makes a decision, my ability to 'beg' will not influence it one iota. Now, if we're having a discussion where he's taking my input (and I hope most discussions along collaring lines he wants your input), then I give it. I don't beg, I succinctly state my case. Begging when my input is asked for smacks of an attempt at emotionally blackmail, or that's how Himself would take it.

So I'm not likely to get anything I 'begged' for and admit I'm unclear on the concept. I've always viewed it as Gor nonsense, but then I view the entire Gorean lifestyle as pure fantasy nonsense, though I'm sure some may find protocols or positions or rituals they enjoy.

This is my opinion, of course everyone has the right to engage in Gor if they so choose.



alhamdullilah -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 6:21:03 AM)

I know my lack of sleep is taking a toll on my ability to be clear, yet I absolutely appreciate your replies. It would help a little to explain that the discussion of collaring has been going on for some time and he very recently expressed that he is feeling that it is about time to do so.

I think I am suffering from a little confusion due to my Gorean background. He isn't high protocol... at least not right now. I can't read him - never could. Just when I'm thinking he's not interested in protocol for example, he'll do something I wouldn't have imagined. It's one of the things I love about him, incidentally. My understanding is that he likes to build up slowly. His intention seems to be to increase the intensity of the dynamic, if that makes sense (again, lack of sleep hindering my ability to be clear, I'm afraid.)

I figure that even though begging his collar is kind of a left-over from my Gorean background, he'll appreciate the act of submission, which is quite genuine, and the unabashed expression of my desire for him. As an independent woman, I've found it difficult to be as expressive in that respect. Being out of the lifestyle for a while really threw me for a loop (anybody know the origin of that expression, incidentally?)

Sorry, sidetracked myself. I gather from the responses, though, that non-Goreans don't generally do such things..? I mean, a sub/slave would not beg a collar of a Dominant even with the knowledge that he was considering, if not preparing to do that, whereas a kajira would beg a collar in part to demonstrate her desperation and desire?

I wonder if there are not others out there who end up overlapping, essentially creating their own definition and protocols, some perhaps similar to Gorean, though they espouse a TPE dynamic. I'm sure there must be. There are definitely some very major differences between the various lifestyle dynamics.

I only know that once he has collared me, his expectations are going to increase dramatically. This he's made reference to on a few occasions.

Thank you so much for your replies. It takes time to bother with such things so I really appreciate your time and input!

Something just occurred to me while I was thinking how much more comfortable I am with what I'm accustomed to... that's the submissive he fell in love with. Perhaps, even if I don't identify as Gorean now, I should do what I'm used to doing..?

~llilah



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 6:55:53 AM)

quote:

whereas a kajira would beg a collar in part to demonstrate her desperation and desire?


Desire I have, desperation, oh hell no. If I was desperate to progress in our relationship, Himself would back track b/c he'd see that as me not being emotionally fit enough to progress.

Sorry, I am never going to see desperation about a relationship as a positive thing.

As for how common begging is outside of Gor, I'm thinking that depends on how people learned of this lifestyle and how much internet fantasy they were exposed to and took on. The net has done a great deal to make BDSM more mainstream, it's also brought far too many fantasy land ideas of how M/s and D/s relationships should work (JMO).

People open enough to take protocols and rituals they like from Gor (or wherever) and make them work for their specific relationship have a much better chance for success than those who buy into the total fantasy slave girl package (again, JMO)

I think you should do what you think he would enjoy, not what you think you should do based on your background.




chatterbox24 -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 7:35:52 AM)

I love the idea, myself. Its your relationship and it sounds like you feel a real desire to do this.

I think a letter praising him, and showing how much you want this, is special.

Good luck with whatever you chose, Our history sometimes leads to our future. Trust your heart and self.




OsideGirl -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 8:03:23 AM)

I don't have any advice, but wanted to wish you luck (and congratulations).



JeffBC -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 9:59:48 AM)

Carol and I did a [re]-collaring ritual (heh, the old collar had finally worn out). In our case it was me driving rather than her but we still deliberately created a moment.

For you, I guess what I'd suggest is to keep it simple. You can elaborate on all the basics if you really want but if you take all the fantasy away what is left is a woman asking to become the property of a man ... and all that that implies about how she sees that man and her relationship with him. In and of itself that's a pretty awesome thing. So how about naked, kneeling, and heartfelt?



SeekingTrinity -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 10:18:58 AM)

~FRing it~

From a non-Gorean perspective, collar begging just doesn't make sense to me either. Truth be told, I tend to tune out begging anyway because I've always felt it was the beggar's way of trying to manipulate me. But I'll finish this with the statement "but that's just me" because I feel everyone is free to do their relationship their way.

I'm on the same page as Ishtarr and Chatte. Figure out what his style is and tailor your request to it. Since you said he wasn't Gorean either, he might not understand the significance of the whole begging a collar thing either.



LafayetteLady -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 10:59:35 AM)

Is this the same guy you spoke about here?

If it is, then I assume you have worked out all the problems and are ready to move forward.

Like Chatte, I don't go for the whole "begging for a collar" perspective, and share her views of Gor as well.

To me, a relationship is not something where one partner begs the other for more of a commitment.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 11:08:34 AM)

I'm gonna stick my neck out here....
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
To me, a relationship is not something where one partner begs the other for more of a commitment.

To me, if any relationship came to that sort of point where this was needed then IMHO there isn't a relationship at all - it's either all fantasy or it's already fallen apart.




LanceHughes -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 11:50:09 AM)

How about instead of begging, you petition for the collar? That is, ask for it nicely. Such a petition should include at least two elements:
(A) Benefits to each of you.
(B) Why you desire his collar.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/29/2013 12:28:08 PM)

~FR~

As somebody who identifies strongly with the Gorean philosophy, I feel I need to make a point here...

The concept of "begging a collar" isn't Gorean per say either. It's an online translation of a story embellishment that happened in the the books which doesn't translate literally to real life. Gorean kajirae -in the books- who where for sale in a market, would often try to influence a potential buyers decision, if he looked rich, or handsome, by petitioning him to buy her by yelling out things. Among the things traditionally yelled out are: "buy me Master" and "I beg your collar Master".

However, a Free Woman, petitioning to become a slave of a particular man would never actually "beg a collar". Instead, she'd go through a ritual of submission, which in it most basic form entails her kneeling (clothed or naked) before him with the wrists crossed and raised above her head, and simply stating: "I submit". Upon her act of submission, she would legally become a slave on Gor. This meant that the man in question now had an unowned slave girl before him of whom he could claim ownership, much as you can do with a stray dog. He could, however, also claim her as his property, only to then immediately sell her, or he could also walk away, in which case the former Free Woman would still be a legal slave, and any other random guy now could claim her as his property to do with as he pleased.

Further details of the transaction are really irrelevant, seeing that non of it will translate to any context applicable to real life, but even as a fictional ritual, the act of "begging a collar to start the beginning of a relationship" isn't literally Gorean in origin, and is instead an online fabrication very loosely based on Gorean lore.
_____

alhamdullilah I'm not trying to dis your desire to "beg a collar" here. Regardless of where the idea came from, it can be a very powerful ritual to perform if it holds meaning to both parties. However, there are so many misconceptions vanilla people have about Gor already that I can't really let yet another occasion go by where misinformation of things Gorean was spread.



MasterOne50 -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (3/31/2013 12:42:08 PM)

maybe im old fashioned or what but i would think it is up to the Dom/Master to make the decision to collar/own a sub/slave. the begging for a collar would not go in my book. i feel you have to earn the collar. maybe ask him what you have to earn in his eyes to get his collar?



areallivehuman -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/1/2013 4:08:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

I know my lack of sleep is taking a toll on my ability to be clear, yet I absolutely appreciate your replies. It would help a little to explain that the discussion of collaring has been going on for some time and he very recently expressed that he is feeling that it is about time to do so.

I think I am suffering from a little confusion due to my Gorean background. He isn't high protocol... at least not right now. I can't read him - never could. Just when I'm thinking he's not interested in protocol for example, he'll do something I wouldn't have imagined. It's one of the things I love about him, incidentally. My understanding is that he likes to build up slowly. His intention seems to be to increase the intensity of the dynamic, if that makes sense (again, lack of sleep hindering my ability to be clear, I'm afraid.)

I figure that even though begging his collar is kind of a left-over from my Gorean background, he'll appreciate the act of submission, which is quite genuine, and the unabashed expression of my desire for him. As an independent woman, I've found it difficult to be as expressive in that respect. Being out of the lifestyle for a while really threw me for a loop (anybody know the origin of that expression, incidentally?)

Sorry, sidetracked myself. I gather from the responses, though, that non-Goreans don't generally do such things..? I mean, a sub/slave would not beg a collar of a Dominant even with the knowledge that he was considering, if not preparing to do that, whereas a kajira would beg a collar in part to demonstrate her desperation and desire?

I wonder if there are not others out there who end up overlapping, essentially creating their own definition and protocols, some perhaps similar to Gorean, though they espouse a TPE dynamic. I'm sure there must be. There are definitely some very major differences between the various lifestyle dynamics.

I only know that once he has collared me, his expectations are going to increase dramatically. This he's made reference to on a few occasions.

Thank you so much for your replies. It takes time to bother with such things so I really appreciate your time and input!

Something just occurred to me while I was thinking how much more comfortable I am with what I'm accustomed to... that's the submissive he fell in love with. Perhaps, even if I don't identify as Gorean now, I should do what I'm used to doing..?

~llilah



Actions speak louder than words. Perhaps you can try to live up to his expectations now. Nothing wrong with a heartfelt declaration of devotion, but leave it at that.



Wiccansub -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/1/2013 4:28:12 AM)

Why cant you communicate all this wirh him?



ARIES83 -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/1/2013 3:12:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

How about instead of begging, you petition for the collar? That is, ask for it nicely. Such a petition should include at least two elements:
(A) Benefits to each of you.
(B) Why you desire his collar.




I like that idea, mostly for the fun value!

I'm picturing a living room powerpoint presentation
of some sort.



ropekitten -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/1/2013 3:49:54 PM)

I guess that my humble question would be whether he already knows or not that you are ready to be entirely his, that you are ready to be owned by him. If he knows, then it seems that presenting a "begging" letter might be viewed as an ultimatum. If he knows and hasn't collared you, then he isn't yet ready to do so.

If he doesn't know, then, well, perhaps something written to let him know, but to me (and I love to write), actions are better. And begging? I am even uncomfortable when a Dom asks me to beg for something. "Please, Sir, your cold servant would respectfully ask if the door might be closed," is as close as I can come to even asking for something. At that point, he knows I'm very cold and if he isn't going to close the door, well, then he must want me to be cold for him. ....Unless he likes begging.

Wow, that was so helpful. I'm sorry.



dananddawn -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/7/2013 6:03:32 AM)

In many real time communities, begging for your collar (or, as @LanceHughes mentions, in some circles petition for collar) is part of the overall collaring ritual. And personally, I like ritual. I like the formal declaration of intent, the through process that goes into it, the sign of commitment. We put time and energy into ceremonies done because people tell us we are supposed to (weddings comes to mind) but collaring can be a ceremony of celebration.

I would simply be genuine, and focus on why you desire it and why it is of value.

Good luck :)
Dan



kiwisub12 -> RE: M/s Lifestyles: Begging a collar - Advice please! (4/11/2013 4:44:23 PM)

Hmm .... after several years, my first dom collared me. I didn't ask him - he asked me.

I'm not sure in any relationship i've been in that me asking would have been appropriate. Since he was the dominant, it would have been inappropriate for me to do the answering. Besides, i would have trouble being that "forward".

However, if that is the dynamic you have, then go for it. and if you are going to do it in a letter, you have the perfect opportunity to say perfectly all that you want. If you are like me, you are a lot more articulate on paper than in person.



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