Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

141 counts of first degree murder with one victim?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 5:51:52 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen

CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died.

Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death.

She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say.

Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral.

Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single
murder with anything close to that number of counts.


I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 5:54:56 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Maybe the victim was a cartoon and took a lot of shooting?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 5:58:38 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible?

Only because they could not find 142. If these guys are guilty let them spend the rest of their rotten lives getting corn-holed daily in jail. No sympathy in this case.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 5:59:24 AM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline 		I haven't heard of anything like that before, either.

My best guess is that it boils down to the prosecutor's ability to indict a ham sandwich. Even if he's convicted of all 141 counts, they should all merge into one count, since it's the same offense. It's not like you can kill somebody (which is the crime he committed) more than once.

Not that there aren't some people who that should be available for.

_____________________________

I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 6:22:59 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen

CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died.

Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death.

She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say.

Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral.

Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single
murder with anything close to that number of counts.


I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible?

quote:

Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams


The article is misleading they have many charges against them some related to the shooting, two others with Hadiya Pendleton, were also shoot. Some of the other charges are related to that, two counts of attempted murder and two counts of aggravated battery with a firearm. I am a somewhat curious, if one complaint from those who are pro gun and such is that current laws are not being enforced, well here they are and you are complaining about that, you can't have it both ways.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 8:39:28 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen

CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died.

Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death.

She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say.

Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral.

Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single
murder with anything close to that number of counts.


I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible?

quote:

Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams


The article is misleading they have many charges against them some related to the shooting, two others with Hadiya Pendleton, were also shoot. Some of the other charges are related to that, two counts of attempted murder and two counts of aggravated battery with a firearm. I am a somewhat curious, if one complaint from those who are pro gun and such is that current laws are not being enforced, well here they are and you are complaining about that, you can't have it both ways.

If the article is accurate and they have been charged with 141 counts of the same thing the this constitutes prosecutorial misconduct. If they have 141 different charges against them the prosecutor may be overzealous but it is a case of journalistic incompitence.
Saying that finding somthing is wrong on someones part is somehow not wanting these guys punished (assuming they are guilty, we want to get the right people) denoted a lack of contact with reality.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 11:47:46 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		What's happening is they charged him with every possible variation and permutation of the act in the hope that something will stick. This is typical in prosecution - charging murder, manslaughter, and reckless endangerment so the jury has fallback positions in case the higher charge isn't proven. I suspect most of those 141 charges are for related matters such as illegal possession of a firearm, conspiracy, etc.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 3:56:48 PM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

What's happening is they charged him with every possible variation and permutation of the act in the hope that something will stick. This is typical in prosecution - charging murder, manslaughter, and reckless endangerment so the jury has fallback positions in case the higher charge isn't proven. I suspect most of those 141 charges are for related matters such as illegal possession of a firearm, conspiracy, etc.


Unless you've read the actual indictment, I'd doubt this is the case. If so...link, please?

I can't speak for Illinois, but in most (if not all) jurisdictions in the US, a murder charge automatically includes a manslaughter charge, since manslaughter is a lesser-included-offense of murder. So there's no need for the prosecutor to include a manslaughter charge on the indictment. Additionally, doing things like using a firearm are typically treated as specifications to a murder count, so there's no need to include them as separate charges. The jury can find a person guilty of the murder count without finding them guilty of using a firearm, for instance (though not vice-versa).

The article said the defendant was charged with 141 counts of first-degree murder. Either the journalist misunderstood (which wouldn't exactly be the first time that's happened), or some prosecutor is going to be facing the disciplinary process very soon.


_____________________________

I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 4:05:45 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR

Has anyone considered it was but a misprint?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to muhly22222)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 4:24:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR

Has anyone considered it was but a misprint?

Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 10:32:53 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR

Has anyone considered it was but a misprint?

Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint.



That was my thought. I think it was 141 counts between the 2 defendants in total including first degree murder.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/29/2013 11:24:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR

Has anyone considered it was but a misprint?

Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint.



That was my thought. I think it was 141 counts between the 2 defendants in total including first degree murder.


That would make much more sense

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? - 3/30/2013 2:52:59 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Sorry, here is the link for the story Suspect in Hadiya slaying indicted on 141 counts of murder

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 13
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.110