Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Freedom in the 50 States


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Freedom in the 50 States Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:13:06 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		Well: it would seem that the chart above can actually serve a useful purpose of showing which states are the 'most free' of Radical influence. In that, they served a good purpose, although I'm sure they didn't intend to.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:22:32 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

FR:


There are a lot of "freedom lovers".......... who want be free to pollute my air........


That,is not freedom.

And this is one example of my argument!!

For you, it's not a freedom - it's a fucking ass-ache and an infringement of your freedoms.

For those 'freedom lovers' on the other side of the fence, for you to stop their freedoms would infringe on theirs.

Touché!! Stalemate.
Neither is right or wrong - just a different PoV of what a right or freedom is.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:31:21 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There are a lot of "freedom lovers".......... who want be free to pollute my air........

That,is not freedom.

Well since the premise here is that persons should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't injure another, I think it would be hard to work polluting the planet into that point of view. But hey, that's okay. I understand. Letting your intelligence get the upper hand would spoil your fun.

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:32:25 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Neither is right or wrong - just a different PoV of what a right or freedom is.

Cute, but no cigar. See previous.

K.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:42:51 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		This is some of the most rediculous,subjective bull shit, you`ve ever posted......





_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 1:54:50 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The problem arises when one can justifiably reason that the freedoms they seek are that of making the most money, paying the lowest wages, providing the fewest benefits and paying the lowest taxes.

Fuck the environment, fuck you and fuck society at large, we are talking freedom baby.

Okay, that's a start. Or at least maybe it is. Which of their criteria would you cite in support of these claims?

K.

They want in a general sense the freedom to pollute, at least no less or even more than they are, the freedom to pay less than minimum wage, the freedom from any collective bargaining or the effects of same, i.e., the freedom to conduct business to maximize profits without concern for any of society's concern. They want the freedom to blow people off oil platforms and bury then in coal mines.

All other issues are mainly used as a means to gather emotional support in order to simply help finance the overall influence of their business goals.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 2:01:45 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I see that PA is a dark blue, though not the darkest blue.

The Koch brothers happen to have a coal processing plant in my city. A small one to be sure, but it has been cited several times in the past few years for EPA violations. Just 2 years ago a air filtration system blew up and sent black smoke through all of the lake side area of Erie. That's all of our downtown, people!! The Perry Monument, The Flagship Niagara, Hotels were covered in soot; the public library, the art museum; the beaches. Birds and fishes died. Everything in the city was black for miles. Some old timers said the air quality was worst than when Hammermill Paper, GE Locomotive and Lord Manufacturing along with all the steel mills were all running at full capacity in the 60s before the EPA regulations were put into place.

And the Koch brothers are fighting the fine they got for that "accident". They are fighting the fines they accumulated over the years at the Erie site that amount to millions of dollars.

So of course PA would be dark blue. The Koch brothers have not been left to pollute this state and Lake Erie without consequence, even though they have yet to pay their fines. Their legal fees in fighting those fines are mounting. But I guess, for them, it is the "principle" of the matter. They don't care how much they spend in legal fees so long as they get away with polluting and don't have to pay a fine for doing so...

Oh and I keep seeing that the plant is hiring. But the ad never states that it is the Koch Plant. Their reputation here is just that bad; they wouldn't get a single application if people knew what they were applying for.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 2:06:10 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		And wait a minute:

How can ND rake 10th with its socialist bank???


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 2:29:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		FR
note that the koch brothers lackeys definition of freedom does not include anything related to women's reproductive rights, actually no gender rights of any kind are considered, not just abortion. Nor does it include anything about gay rights except for marriage equality.

IOW this is right wing bullshit intended to do nothing but try and support lies that will be told on Faux News and the rest of the right wing hate media.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/30/2013 2:32:22 PM >

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 2:55:47 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Which of their criteria would you cite in support of these claims?

They want in a general sense the freedom to pollute, at least no less or even more than they are, the freedom to pay less than minimum wage, the freedom from any collective bargaining or the effects of same, i.e., the freedom to conduct business to maximize profits without concern for any of society's concern. They want the freedom to blow people off oil platforms and bury then in coal mines.

All other issues are mainly used as a means to gather emotional support in order to simply help finance the overall influence of their business goals.

Maybe you didn't understand the question. Let's try again. Ready?

Which of their criteria would you cite in support of these claims?

K.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:03:55 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

note that the koch brothers lackeys definition of freedom does not include anything related to women's reproductive rights, actually no gender rights of any kind are considered, not just abortion. Nor does it include anything about gay rights except for marriage equality.

Since a definition of individual freedom does not require enumerating every possible circumstance and specifying every race, sex, gender, religion, ethnicity, or whatever the fuck else, this particular magic trick works better when you have a pretty assistant to provide a distraction.

(I apologize for the big words.)

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:13:47 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		It is blatantly absurd to suggest that the authors and/or financiers of a blatantly political tool - this self styled Index of Freedom - are irrelevant when considering the report's findings.

According to wiki:
" The Mercatus Center was founded by Rich Fink as the Center for the Study of Market Processes at Rutgers University. After the Koch family provided more than thirty million dollars[2] to George Mason University, the Center moved to George Mason in the mid-1980s before assuming its current name in 1999.[2] The Mercatus Center is a 501(c)3 non-profit and does not receive support from George Mason University or any federal, state or local government, but rather is entirely funded through donations, including some from companies like Koch Industries[3] and ExxonMobil,[4] individual donors and foundations. As of 2011, the Center shows that 58% of its funding comes from foundations, 40% from individuals, and 2% from businesses.[1]

Stated mission
The organization describes itself as "the world’s premier university source for market-oriented ideas" that aims to bridge "the gap between academic ideas and real-world problems."[2] By advancing knowledge about how markets can work to improve lives and individual freedoms, by training graduate students, conducting research, and applying economic principles, they hope to offer solutions to society's most pressing problems.

Washington Post columnist Al Kamen has described Mercatus as a "staunchly anti-regulatory center funded largely by Koch Industries Inc."[3] Rob Stein, the Democratic strategist, has called it "ground zero for deregulation policy in Washington.”[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center

Clearly Mercatus has a far Right ideological agenda. It is reasonable to expect that agenda and ideological bias will be reflected in Mercatus' studies and publications. It is at best ingenuous and at worst, deliberately misleading to argue that these biases and idelogical agenda should not be considered when assessing Mercatus' studies and publications.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/30/2013 3:21:02 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:23:46 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
Our mission is to generate knowledge and understanding of the institutions that affect the freedom to prosper and to find sustainable solutions that overcome the barriers preventing individuals from living free, prosperous, and peaceful lives. ~Mercatus Center: About

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Clearly Mercatus has a far Right ideological agenda.

Oh yes, clearly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is blatantly absurd to suggest that the authors and/or financiers of a blatantly political tool - this self styled Index of Freedom - are irrelevant when considering the report's findings.

The fantasy of a clutch of zombies shuffling around doing their evil master's bidding is paranoid enough to raise eyebrows at an Intake interview. Even the wildest right-wing fanatics credit the staffs of Soros-funded organizations with being assholes in their own right.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/30/2013 3:29:03 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:35:16 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


This project develops an index of economic and personal freedom in the American states.


In my opinion, due to the subjective weight of the criteria, they have failed in their purpose.

Two of the criteria, tax and tort, make up over 40% of the overall 'freedom' index while civil liberties (which in a discussion of 'personal freedom' would seem to deserve more weight) comes in at just .6%.


"Calculating the “freedom value” of each variable was a Herculean endeavor, to be perfectly honest, but we did it because we wanted to make the investment in a dramatic improvement to the study’s methodology. For some variables, precious little scholarly investigation revealed the information we wanted, and our calculations end up being more like “guesstimates” than precise estimates."

.. to me that paragraphs translates to "We did our best to make sure all was factual but when we couldn't get precise, we guessed and set the weight of a particular variable based on that guess."

I think that's a fair assessment of that particular paragraph. I can make a guess just as well and 'guess' that Marriage is more important than Tort laws to 'most' people and weigh that personal freedom much higher than the Tort stuff and Tort got 11%!

So, again, subjective.

I think it serves the purpose the authors intended for the audience whom they want to capture or retain. Other than that, it doesn't seem to be of much use for those who may weigh the variables in a different manner as one can see when clicking on the 'user' generated portion of the site.




_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:43:15 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		I personally think states like New York and California are far more "free" than states like Florida and Texas.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 3:43:29 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is some of the most rediculous,subjective bull shit, you`ve ever posted......




Your statement could be disputed Owner. Personally I tend to think that this thread's effort doesn't quite reach the heights of absurdity Kirata's recent claim that genocide against white South Africans is being carried out now, and that this genocide has been carried on since the ending of apartheid there. That post was accompanied by a lurid image featuring a brutal looking black, terrified white virgin girls, copious amounts of blood and IIRC, strategically located machetes, designed to make us pine for the good old days of apartheid when everyone knew their place.

While I am open to persuasion, I'm inclined to think that the image makes the difference and gets that post over the line. I will concede that it's a close thing. When it cones to sheer aburdity, there's not much to separate the claims in Kirata's two posts.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/30/2013 4:25:13 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 4:02:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

note that the koch brothers lackeys definition of freedom does not include anything related to women's reproductive rights, actually no gender rights of any kind are considered, not just abortion. Nor does it include anything about gay rights except for marriage equality.

Since a definition of individual freedom does not require enumerating every possible circumstance and specifying every race, sex, gender, religion, ethnicity, or whatever the fuck else, this particular magic trick works better when you have a pretty assistant to provide a distraction.

(I apologize for the big words.)

K.

Bullshit.

The fact is equal treatment of the genders affects a lot more people a lot more of the time than most of the "freedoms" measured in this "study." For instance a bunch of tobacco related stuff is afforded 4% of the rating while freedom from discrimination based on gender or sexuality is 0% of the rating.

How much more ridiculous could this be?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 4:17:54 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		This is clearly a biased study based on flawed "facts".I consider things like personal freedom and human rights laws to be more important than economic freedom.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 4:40:42 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Personally I tend to think that this thread's effort doesn't quite reach the heights of absurdity Kirata's recent claim that genocide against white South Africans is being carried out now, and that this genocide has been carried on since the ending of apartheid there.



Personally, I think you need to get out more. They managed to get the attention of GenocideWatch. At one point the situation had reached Stage 6. It has now been downgraded to Stage 5, no thanks to Jacob Zuma, who, by the way, is the fellow your post refers to as "the brutal looking black." At least you got that right.

Acting Judge of the South Gauteng High Court, Leon Halgryn declared that the song is hate speech, and it is unconstitutional to either utter or sing “dubul’ibhunu” (“shoot the Boer.”) He issued an injunction against Malema, ordering him to no longer sing the song. The phrase is now considered hate speech. Julius Malema was shortly thereafter removed as President of the ANC Youth League, and ejected from the ANC. However, Malema’s followers have defied the judgment and continue to sing the song... President Jacob Zuma sang “Shoot the Boer” at the ANC Centenary Celebration event in January of 2012.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/30/2013 5:05:49 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 3/30/2013 4:53:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

freedom from discrimination based on gender or sexuality is 0% of the rating.

You're just making shit up as usual.

Marriage and civil-union laws and arrests for victimless crimes are each worth 16.2 percent of personal freedom... Marriage and civil-union laws are coded equally with arrests for victimless crimes because of the high salience of the issue. State attempts to enhance the ability of same-sex partners to make voluntary contracts that affect life or death decisions unequivocally enhance individual liberty. (One could argue that states should get the government out of marriage licensing altogether and offer streamlined "life-partnership contracts" to all sorts of families and households, not just heterosexual and homosexual two-partner relationships.)

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Freedom in the 50 States Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.188