Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 1:59:30 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.


The treaty only applie to the export of the covered weapons. Why don't you try reading it.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 3:02:14 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Neither the UN Charter or this new treaty affects that. Why don't you try reading things before you fly off the handle?


The treaty would virtually repeal the 2nd

No. It would not.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/docs/Draft_ATT_text_27_Mar_2013-E.pdf

You guys need to stop listening to Rush and FNC and actually investigate things for yourself.



yeh and listen to Ken right!

The responsibility of all States, in accordance with their respective
international obligations, to effectively regulate the international trade in
conventional arms, and to prevent their diversion, as well as the primary
responsibility of all States in establishing and implementing their respective
national control systems;


well we have do not infringe and how is regulation aka "policing" NOT infringement Ken?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 3:05:11 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


and if anyone thinks there is anything more than simple "coincidence" you are a batshit crazy fucking conspiracy theorist




Many an economist will tell you that nothing gets a country back to work like gearing up for war.

Seem to recall Hitler was Time magazine's man of the year for ultimately dragging Germany out of the great depression. Which was probably a fair call at the time (pre WWII), despite Scientologists making yardage (at "Time") via 20-20 hindsight.

So the guy was building more than highly visible autobahn mega structures - who really knew the consequences until it was too late?

Focus.


War footing creates jobs but is highly inflationary and can destroy an economy, see Viet Nam.



yes ironically a noteable pattern, everytime the dollar regained its value of approximately 1 dollar there was war to drag it back inflationary.

Once we went off the gold standard it is no longer capable of recovering and they take profits every time it doji's

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 3:08:36 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

the constitution doesnt say that though.  It says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, it says nothing regarding what can be kept and born in the way of arms.  

At that time they allowed up to and including cannons.



yep and that is precisely why they used the word arms, it means anything from a pea shooter to a nuke and between.

They seen it go from swords to firearms knowing it would continue to develop better arms and ways of killing one another.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 3:10:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
no it dont.  back to the shithouse law school and dig up cases. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 5:17:31 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

who really knew the consequences until it was too late?


Anyone who had read Mien Kampf.


Crap - more 20-20 hindsight! Nothing happens until it's happened.

Despite the US having more law enforcement and security agencies than even God can figger, nothing happened to stop 9/11 despite collectively having everything necessary to act in time.

Same can be said of the radar units tracking a motza of unidentified planes approaching Pearl Harbour in late 1941.

Conversely, the Middle East was gonna finally be the exploding powder keg (that didn't happen) because of the US Embassy hostage crisis in Iran.

And speaking of "Mien Kampf" style predilections, for all money serious shit to World stability is building in North Korea right now. Here's your big chance to be all knowledgeable and clever from in front of something. At what point should the world (UN...? lol) act - or if at all? (smart money goes here) Because right now, for all the rhetoric and sabre-rattling brinkmanship, they have NOT attacked anyone.

Politically, despots are usually the pro-active, the rest of the World is reactive.

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 5:27:22 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Hogwash.

The US should be rich after our current excursion in the sandbox


Compared to Hitler's foreign excursions, the US's is half hearted at best. Now a serious military threat to the US homeland, however, would likely have a big effect as to how many rely on welfare benefits as opposed to going to work.

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 6:13:13 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Hogwash.

The US should be rich after our current excursion in the sandbox


Compared to Hitler's foreign excursions, the US's is half hearted at best. Now a serious military threat to the US homeland, however, would likely have a big effect as to how many rely on welfare benefits as opposed to going to work.

Focus.




yeh butcha gotta read between the lines.

Its the same shit they did here.

People are too damn dumb to learn how law works in the big leagues.

England and the US went it alone, guess who now owns under brit law the underlying titles?

controlling interest in 33% of the planet isnt good enough when there is money to be made, they need more.

Guess who has to pay the war debt to england and the US?

Guess what debt will never get paid until every ounce of anything is sucked out of the country through their fraudulent monetary system.

Its the same shit they did here at the revolution. started a war and created a debt that will never be paid until finally the peoples labor and their childrens labor are all on the table and owned by those handling the money in collusion with government gubafia.






totally legal slavery to pledge your labor for the debt to pay the feudal lords of state and their corporate pals.

if the whole fucking world is in debt where the hell is the money?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/5/2013 6:16:54 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:28:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.


The treaty only applie to the export of the covered weapons. Why don't you try reading it.

And to control weapons in the hands of non government entities to insure they do not get into the black market.
I have read everything I can find on the treaty. Do you have a link to the actuall text of the treaty? Or have you not read it.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:35:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Crap - more 20-20 hindsight! Nothing happens until it's happened.


When they tell you what they are going to do, start doing the good things and the iffy things, you got to be any idiot to think they will not go on to the bad things.
Do you honestly believe that Iran and North Korea are just engaging in harmless shield beating?

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:38:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Same can be said of the radar units tracking a motza of unidentified planes approaching Pearl Harbour in late 1941.


They were new, nobody at Pearl really nes how to use them, and they were expecting a squadron of B17s that morning. They hadn't had the radar long enough to know what that would look like.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:39:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Conversely, the Middle East was gonna finally be the exploding powder keg (that didn't happen) because of the US Embassy hostage crisis in Iran.


Nope just terroism because we showed them that we would back down.
Equates to the Sudatenland.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/5/2013 9:40:33 PM >

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:47:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.


The treaty only applie to the export of the covered weapons. Why don't you try reading it.

And to control weapons in the hands of non government entities to insure they do not get into the black market.
I have read everything I can find on the treaty. Do you have a link to the actuall text of the treaty? Or have you not read it.

I already posted a link to the text of the treaty. It clearly states "export" over and over again. It specifically says it will have no effect on private ownership of firearms where that is legal.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:51:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I already posted a link to the text of the treaty. It clearly states "export" over and over again. It specifically says it will have no effect on private ownership of firearms where that is legal.


It also refers repeatedly to the establishment of "control systems" what do you supose that means.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 9:53:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.


The treaty only applie to the export of the covered weapons. Why don't you try reading it.

And to control weapons in the hands of non government entities to insure they do not get into the black market.
I have read everything I can find on the treaty. Do you have a link to the actuall text of the treaty? Or have you not read it.

I already posted a link to the text of the treaty. It clearly states "export" over and over again. It specifically says it will have no effect on private ownership of firearms where that is legal.

Why would they need to control exports of small arms since the liberals on here have assured us time after time that they are useless against any modern military.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/5/2013 11:07:10 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.

No it would NOT be private ownership. This is a false interpretation.

The UN resolution establishing the treaty process recognised:
“the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty
The Treaty has no effect on any internal arrangements any member State may have on firearms. The Treaty covers arms for export only.

It is also erroneous to claim that the Treaty is enforced "to the satisfaction of the UN". The Treaty is enforced by its signatories ie individual States within their area of sovereignty.

I don't know what it is with some US gun lovers. It seems every time someone mentions the word "guns' no no matter what the context, they discover a hitherto secret conspiracy to take their guns away. We all know how to describe this kind of behaviour in a 5 year old.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/5/2013 11:09:23 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/6/2013 4:58:47 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Crap - more 20-20 hindsight! Nothing happens until it's happened.


When they tell you what they are going to do, start doing the good things and the iffy things, you got to be any idiot to think they will not go on to the bad things.
Do you honestly believe that Iran and North Korea are just engaging in harmless shield beating?


For fuck sake, this is exactly what I posed to you after your insightful "Mein Kampf" hindsight conclusion. Lame dodge mate; lame!

Right now, neither Iran nor North Korea have been aggressors to anyone. I'm expecting shit to happen, particularly from North Korea. Iran may even take a cue from them, when/if they do act.

You were quite smug pointing to "Mein Kampf" after the fact. How about some real insight *before* the fact with Iran or North Korea. IE, when should the rest of the World act? Or even just the US, since you've been directly threatened by North Korea....

I pretty much know the answer because history can't help but repeat itself. And it's got nothing to do with "should" - that shit never happens, especially if the UN is taking point.

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/6/2013 5:26:20 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The relevant part is that non government entities would have to be controled (to the satisfaction of the UN).
It would put major restrictions on NON GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. That would be private ownership.


The treaty only applie to the export of the covered weapons. Why don't you try reading it.

And to control weapons in the hands of non government entities to insure they do not get into the black market.
I have read everything I can find on the treaty. Do you have a link to the actuall text of the treaty? Or have you not read it.

I already posted a link to the text of the treaty. It clearly states "export" over and over again. It specifically says it will have no effect on private ownership of firearms where that is legal.

Why would they need to control exports of small arms since the liberals on here have assured us time after time that they are useless against any modern military.

You didn't read the treaty. It covers
quote:

(a) Battle tanks;
(b) Armoured combat vehicles;
(c) Large-calibre artillery systems;
(d) Combat aircraft;
(e) Attack helicopters;
(f) Warships;
(g) Missiles and missile launchers; and
(h) Small arms and light weapons.



< Message edited by DomKen -- 4/6/2013 5:37:31 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/6/2013 5:36:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

I already posted a link to the text of the treaty. It clearly states "export" over and over again. It specifically says it will have no effect on private ownership of firearms where that is legal.


It also refers repeatedly to the establishment of "control systems" what do you supose that means.


I don't have to suppose I read the treaty
quote:


The responsibility of all States, in accordance with their respective international obligations, to effectively regulate the international trade in conventional arms, and to prevent their diversion, as well as the primary responsibility of all States in establishing and implementing their respective national control systems;

quote:


Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system to regulate the export of ammunition/munitions fired, launched or delivered by the conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1), and shall apply the provisions of Article 6 and Article 7 prior to authorizing the export of such ammunition/munitions

quote:


Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system to regulate the export of parts and components where the export is in a form that provides the capability to assemble the conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) and shall apply the provisions of Article 6 and Article 7 prior to authorizing the export of such parts and components

quote:


Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list, in order to implement the provisions of this Treaty.

quote:


Each State Party shall take measures necessary to implement the provisions of this Treaty and shall designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective and transparent national control system regulating the transfer of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) and of items covered under Article 3 and Article 4.

quote:


If the export is not prohibited under Article 6, each exporting State Party, prior to authorization of the export of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) or of items covered under Article 3 or Article 4, under its jurisdiction and pursuant to its national control system, shall, in an objective and non-discriminatory manner, taking into account relevant factors, including information provided by the importing State in accordance with Article 8 (1), assess the potential that the conventional arms or items

quote:


The exporting State Party shall seek to prevent the diversion of the transfer of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) through its national control system, established in accordance with Article 5 (2), by assessing the risk of diversion of the export and considering the establishment of mitigation measures such as confidence-building measures or jointly developed and agreed programmes by the exporting and importing States. Other prevention measures may include, where appropriate: examining parties involved in the export, requiring additional documentation, certificates, assurances, not authorizing the export or other appropriate measures.

That is every mention of "control systems" in the entire treaty. None of that would ever affect a private legal gun owner unless he wanted to engage in the export of weapons.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty - 4/6/2013 5:36:57 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh butcha gotta read between the lines.

Its the same shit they did here.

People are too damn dumb to learn how law works in the big leagues.

England and the US went it alone, guess who now owns under brit law the underlying titles?

controlling interest in 33% of the planet isnt good enough when there is money to be made, they need more.

Guess who has to pay the war debt to england and the US?

Guess what debt will never get paid until every ounce of anything is sucked out of the country through their fraudulent monetary system.

Its the same shit they did here at the revolution. started a war and created a debt that will never be paid until finally the peoples labor and their childrens labor are all on the table and owned by those handling the money in collusion with government gubafia.






totally legal slavery to pledge your labor for the debt to pay the feudal lords of state and their corporate pals.

if the whole fucking world is in debt where the hell is the money?


Two things I'm not understanding here....

When you say "Its the same shit they did here", where's "here"?

The second thing is your map. On "Global Public Debt", I'm thinking the "Public" implies government debt, as opposed to the private sector. And the high end (red) seems to be all the western nations and that they (apparently) carry the heaviest debt?

And I'm finding it a little hard to believe that Aus is in such apparently dire financial straits. As in, keeping company with (to name 3) Italy, Spain and is that Greece, too? (not that familiar with an atlas).

When the global financial crisis erupted some 4-5 years ago, our Federal Government poured some 40+ billion dollars into infrastructure and other public projects to keep the country working and avoid the recession that crippled many other nations. (that's $40 billion in a country of 23 million population). So yeah, went into debt.

As of the most recent federal budget, they were a billion or so short of going back into surplus - depending on your political persuasion as to just how rubbery, or not, those figures are.... IE, could be 5 or 6 billion out, but still a long ways back from the original 40.

Meanwhile, life looks very hunky-dory in Africa, South America and Russia etc....

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125