RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty

RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 4:52:11 PM)
What contraint systems would be needed to make sure no one shipped a rirearm out of the country illegally (besides jailing Holder)?

DomKen -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 5:19:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: WTF does that even say? It would have been illegal to sell us weapons. Wrong. The treaty would not ban a government from sending weapons to anyone and what arms we got from outside the colonies came from the French government. Once again read the treaty. The Brits would have labeled us insergent terrorists and it would have been illegaltosell to us. Try that again. The treaty says no such thing. At this point if you absolutely refuse to read the treaty, it is not terribly wrong, could you at least stop using what ever source has lied about this treaty this much.

DomKen -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 5:20:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: Then why do you keep claiming things are in it that are quite clearly not and the treaty specificlly says it does not affect? You focus on stated goals, I focus on implementation. The writers got the help of the Brady Bunch and others of their ilk who have no regard for the 2nd. It was written to the satisfaction of the petty despotes who make up most of the U N. It is what Obama turned to when gun control failed. I'm referring to the literal and only words in the document. What else could there be?

DomKen -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 5:24:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What contraint systems would be needed to make sure no one shipped a rirearm out of the country illegally (besides jailing Holder)? We already have control systems on the export of weapons. It's called the Arms Export Control Act and it has been in place since 1976. If you know so much about this subject how come you don't know that?

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 6:16:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What contraint systems would be needed to make sure no one shipped a rirearm out of the country illegally (besides jailing Holder)? We already have control systems on the export of weapons. It's called the Arms Export Control Act and it has been in place since 1976. If you know so much about this subject how come you don't know that? Thank you, you have just demonstrated the lack of need for this treaty. I was asking you for specifics instead of "thats not what they say they want to do". You are taking the word of the UN at face value, how can you do that.

YN -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 7:45:52 PM)
The United States actually has some of the more stringent weapons export controls on the planet. The geeks who rate such things place them among the top tier.

DomKen -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 8:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What contraint systems would be needed to make sure no one shipped a rirearm out of the country illegally (besides jailing Holder)? We already have control systems on the export of weapons. It's called the Arms Export Control Act and it has been in place since 1976. If you know so much about this subject how come you don't know that? Thank you, you have just demonstrated the lack of need for this treaty. I was asking you for specifics instead of "thats not what they say they want to do". You are taking the word of the UN at face value, how can you do that. You do realize there are over a hundred other nations in the world and that this treaty is about encouraging all of them to put in place effective controls on the illegalarms trade? I provided you with specifics and you simply ignored them. You've even claimed that the treaty does things it specifically says it will not do. I take the treaty at face value. The words on the document are what will be enforced not your paranoid fantasies.

tweakabelle -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 10:06:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What contraint systems would be needed to make sure no one shipped a rirearm out of the country illegally (besides jailing Holder)? We already have control systems on the export of weapons. It's called the Arms Export Control Act and it has been in place since 1976. If you know so much about this subject how come you don't know that? Thank you, you have just demonstrated the lack of need for this treaty. I was asking you for specifics instead of "thats not what they say they want to do". You are taking the word of the UN at face value, how can you do that. This post seems to confirm that your perspective is limited - so limited that you don't appear to be thinking beyond the borders of the USA. Also, it is clear from your posts that your perspective is informed by a perceived need to defend the 2nd Amendment, again a matter that is 100% an internal USA issue. IOW, your issues seem to be entirely local and affect the internal politics of the USA only. As has been made clear to you several times, the Treaty does not cover the internal arrangements of any of its signatories. The Treaty stops at the borders of the USA. The Treaty is a voluntary treaty between participating States, not the UN imposition your posts imply it to be. Your concerns stop where the Treaty starts. There is no cross over point. To put that another way, your concerns are ill-informed and utterly irrelevant to the operation of the Treaty. BTW I still await a response to my earlier question: What is your alternative strategy to suppress and eliminate the illegal international trade in arms? I am beginning to suspect that you don't have any viable alternative strategy.

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 11:02:26 PM)
quote: I take the treaty at face value Trust the UN Trust the UN

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/8/2013 11:11:22 PM)
quote: the Treaty does not cover the internal arrangements of any of its signatories. Then why does each country that signs it has to report to the UN as to what constraint systems they have set up. If you in Australia want it that is your business, that is why I look at it from a national ( not local prespective ). The point you are clearly ignoring is that if we are already doing what you only hope others will match why do we need the treaty? Do you realy want the UN involed in anything having to do with how you country does things. Do you honestly believe that a treaty written with the advise of our most prominant anti gun groups will not provide an excuse for stringent gun control? I realize that virtualy every one arguing with me thinks that would be a good thing but come on be honest about it.

tweakabelle -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 12:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: the Treaty does not cover the internal arrangements of any of its signatories. Then why does each country that signs it has to report to the UN as to what constraint systems they have set up. If you in Australia want it that is your business, that is why I look at it from a national ( not local prespective ). The point you are clearly ignoring is that if we are already doing what you only hope others will match why do we need the treaty? Do you realy want the UN involed in anything having to do with how you country does things. Do you honestly believe that a treaty written with the advise of our most prominant anti gun groups will not provide an excuse for stringent gun control? I realize that virtualy every one arguing with me thinks that would be a good thing but come on be honest about it. When you give me the courtesy of answering my question, I'll be delighted to return the favour. In case you've forgotten that question is: What is your alternative strategy to suppress and eliminate the illegal international trade in arms?

DomKen -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 6:29:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: I take the treaty at face value Trust the UN Trust the UN This treaty would only be enforced in the US by our courts. Do you really think US judges will also be a part of some conspiracy to overthrow the entire Constitution?

Moonhead -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 6:36:22 AM)
RINOs and Liberals will stop at nothing to overthrow the Constitution. [:D]

mnottertail -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 7:15:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: Apparently you do, it is what you advocate, I have said nothing approaching that, or nothing of the sort. A They are a non government entity. B They are insurectionists. C That is exactly who the treaty wants to keep guns from. Please quote me the section that states that. (you might want to read the fucking thing this time rather than refelch rightwing disinformation.)

mnottertail -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 7:19:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: WTF does that even say? It would have been illegal to sell us weapons. Wrong. The treaty would not ban a government from sending weapons to anyone and what arms we got from outside the colonies came from the French government. Once again read the treaty. The Brits would have labeled us insergent terrorists and it would have been illegaltosell to us. Nope we sit on the council, if we veto, its over, and UN Secretary Button Gwinnett would have vetoed it there in New York, (where was the UN building in New York in 1776? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?)

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 9:38:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: I take the treaty at face value Trust the UN Trust the UN This treaty would only be enforced in the US by our courts. Do you really think US judges will also be a part of some conspiracy to overthrow the entire Constitution? No but they will have to follow the law.

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 9:42:10 PM)
quote: Nope we sit on the council, if we veto, its over, and UN Secretary Button Gwinnett would have vetoed it there in New York, (where was the UN building in New York in 1776? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?) I said nothing about the UN I said if there had been a treaty like this in effect.. And I doubt that we would have had veto power, not existing as a nation and all.

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 9:48:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: the Treaty does not cover the internal arrangements of any of its signatories. Then why does each country that signs it has to report to the UN as to what constraint systems they have set up. If you in Australia want it that is your business, that is why I look at it from a national ( not local prespective ). The point you are clearly ignoring is that if we are already doing what you only hope others will match why do we need the treaty? Do you realy want the UN involed in anything having to do with how you country does things. Do you honestly believe that a treaty written with the advise of our most prominant anti gun groups will not provide an excuse for stringent gun control? I realize that virtualy every one arguing with me thinks that would be a good thing but come on be honest about it. When you give me the courtesy of answering my question, I'll be delighted to return the favour. In case you've forgotten that question is: What is your alternative strategy to suppress and eliminate the illegal international trade in arms? I didn't say no treaty but I have concerns about this one. Problem is that the nations that wnat to get weapons in the wrong hands will sign any treaty and simply ignore it. One way would be to enforce embargos, that would be far more effective. We have seenone embargo after another ignored without penalty.

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 9:55:10 PM)
Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list, in order to implement the provisions of this Treaty. National firearms registry.

BamaD -> RE: UN passes Small Arms Treaty (4/9/2013 9:57:30 PM)
4. Each State Party, pursuant to its national laws, shall provide its national control list to the Secretariat, which shall make it available to other States Parties. States Parties are encouraged to make their control lists publicly available. Requirement to make national firearms registry public.

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