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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 8:15:36 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		However,if a sub is looking for a Lady to lose control,thats fine too.Sign a contract that does not hold Her responsible,in the event you do get hurt.If somebody knows what they are getting into and that's what they want,then more power to them.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 4/7/2013 8:16:23 AM >

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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 8:49:10 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		Sounds like a great idea...


Let's sign a non-legally binding piece of paper we'll pretend is a contract, and then commit a preplanned assault on a non-consenting victim.



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I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 9:02:46 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Let's sign a non-legally binding piece of paper we'll pretend is a contract, and then commit a preplanned assault on a non-consenting victim.


~rofl~

Quite. The only utility a "contract" has, is in establishing intent for both parties, and even that can be thrown out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 9:03:13 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		FR:

Sub guys dream of all kinds of things, I've always considered it a direct result of watching too much porn.

Considering the title of another thread floating around a few days ago, porn is not real life, nor does it portray real life relationships. Please attempt to enjoy your porn w/o getting lost in the fantasy.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled porn fest.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 4/7/2013 9:07:02 AM >

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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 9:10:16 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		Oh, it's not just sub guys... I can totally understand the fantasy. I've often had fantasies -from both a top as well as a bottom point of view- in which there is a complete and utter disregard and lack of caring about any kind of consent, limits, or legalities. Not necessarily in a "loss of control" type scenario, but more the deliberate, callous indifference to any sort of boundary.

It's just that I am not idiotic enough to entertain that sort of fantasies as realistic.

Even with a consenting victim, I wouldn't put myself in that sort of legal risk, nor would I expect another to put themselves in that sort of risk on my behalf.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 9:15:34 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

It's just that I am not idiotic enough to entertain that sort of fantasies as realistic.


I have all kinds of fantasies too, but I've never thought fantasy was reality, and I've always been aware porn is FANTASY.

In other words, you made my point.

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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 10:06:32 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Oh, it's not just sub guys... I can totally understand the fantasy. I've often had fantasies -from both a top as well as a bottom point of view- in which there is a complete and utter disregard and lack of caring about any kind of consent, limits, or legalities. Not necessarily in a "loss of control" type scenario, but more the deliberate, callous indifference to any sort of boundary.


This sounds like half the fantasies I've ever had, so clearly applicable to at least one dom guy, too.

Also, in my experience, for me, at least, it's real effin' hard to be callously indifferent if you care about someone. And if you extend it to include disregard for health, then the consequences of succeeding might be disastrous with a sadist like me. I suspect most of the overly horny malesubs are quite aware of that, too, as soon as they're done with their lower arm workout for the day.

Porn didn't originate such fantasies for me, and apparently not for you, either.

It simply identifies a common fantasy and plays into it.

As such, I don't blame porn for certain people forgetting the distinction between reality and fantasy, any more than I blame movies and video games for the same when it comes to kids that act out things they've seen elsewhere. What pornos do for me in this department, is to make it easier to spot the ones that have this problem to begin with. Porn doesn't cause it, but it highlights an existing problem in a very useful way.

Just imagine if we regularly ran into these people without the obvious alarm bells up front?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 10:20:27 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Also, in my experience, for me, at least, it's real effin' hard to be callously indifferent if you care about someone. And if you extend it to include disregard for health, then the consequences of succeeding might be disastrous with a sadist like me. I suspect most of the overly horny malesubs are quite aware of that, too, as soon as they're done with their lower arm workout for the day.




It's something I would have used to swear wouldn't make a difference, but at some point I found out that apparently it just took me a really long time to actually find somebody I cared about. But yes, caring makes the callousness nearly impossible, it's possible to still proceed within certain bounds, but caring of itself puts bounds in place that seem pretty hard to overcome... though I can't say that I've ever genuinely tried to push past the bounds either, caring makes you not really desire to push passed them either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Porn didn't originate such fantasies for me, and apparently not for you, either.



LOL no, they pre-date me being aware of the existence of porn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Just imagine if we regularly ran into these people without the obvious alarm bells up front?



Indeed, though most of the people setting off the bells don't actually seem to be convicted enough to be of much real harm... it's more a game to them... most of the time at least. Try to actually proceed turning the fantasy into a more realistic frame to then execute and they go poof. Most of the ones I've seen that were actually scary -like you- don't tend to set off bells if they don't want to.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 4/7/2013 11:20:23 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 11:12:45 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

FR:

Sub guys dream of all kinds of things, I've always considered it a direct result of watching too much porn.

Considering the title of another thread floating around a few days ago, porn is not real life, nor does it portray real life relationships. Please attempt to enjoy your porn w/o getting lost in the fantasy.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled porn fest.


Darn it Chatte...you are ruining my reasons for ordering pizza, hiring plumbers & hot young men to clean the pool! What next? Are you going to tell me that not all Doms are misunderstood billionaires just looking for a young woman to help them get over their pasts?


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 11:57:40 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

It's something I would have used to swear wouldn't make a difference, but at some point I found out that apparently it just took me a really long time to actually find somebody I cared about. But yes, caring makes the callousness nearly impossible, it's possible to still proceed within certain bounds, but caring of itself puts bounds in place that seem pretty hard to overcome... though I can't say that I've ever genuinely tried to push past the bounds either.


Overcoming the bounds of caring is indeed difficult, in my experience. I've done it occasionally, and it's been good for both of us (me and Ars), but the result isn't really callousness or indifference, though I suppose the distinction may be more about what's going on in my mind than in how it's practically experienced by her. With someone else, it's another matter entirely, cf. an amusing anecdote about "OMFG, not American Psycho!" I'm sure I've shared in the past.

There's a huge difference between "this is going to happen, period" and "whatever, I'm having fun, so shut up".

The latter can be pretty damn hot, but it can also end very badly.

quote:

LOL no, they pre-date me being aware of the existence of porn. :-)


Yeah, about kindergarden or so for me, so I'm pretty sure porn had nothing to do with it.

quote:

Try to actually proceed turning the fantasy into a more realistic frame to then execute and they go poof.


Been there, done that.

Heck, me, I'm generally game for the harebrained ideas, too. With the obvious caveat that if Ms. "No limits" or her ilk ever do turn up, they're going to be somewhat disappointed that I don't take advantage of their poor judgment, and that the closest they'll get to experiencing "true" no limits stuff is spending a few minutes tied up and having to listen to me verbally explaining precisely how poor their judgment is and how to go about getting what they want in the future.

quote:

Most of the ones I've seen that were actually scary -like you- don't tend to set off bells if they don't want to.


Aww, two compliments in one sentence.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 12:30:33 PM   
MsGypsey


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/23/2011
Status: offline 		I can understand if this is simply a fantasy or a dream. We all have all sorts of dreams. But if a dominant lost control and did not respect your limits, how can you trust them after that? I can't think of a single sub that I've met who would want this situation in real life. I certainly wouldn't want to lose control. If the OP thought about the consequences of what would happen next, would it still be a fantasy?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 2:11:53 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry Charley but such a contract would be meaningless and would never hold up on a court of law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

However,if a sub is looking for a Lady to lose control,thats fine too.Sign a contract that does not hold Her responsible,in the event you do get hurt.If somebody knows what they are getting into and that's what they want,then more power to them.


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 2:14:55 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Quite. The only utility a "contract" has, is in establishing intent for both parties, and even that can be thrown out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




Even worse, it could be not thrown out. By establishing the dominant's intent to break the law, it would be quite useful to the prosecution.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 3:29:15 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

Even worse, it could be not thrown out. By establishing the dominant's intent to break the law, it would be quite useful to the prosecution.


In my jurisdiction, a written statement of mutual intent goes a long way toward clearing the dominant of legal culpability, or at least establishing mitigating circumstances. This, of course, only applies if a male is on the receiving end. If a sub or bottom wants the dom(me) or top to exceed their limits, the simpler thing would be to just consent to that, which is (here) perfectly legal. Again, of course, only if a male is on the receiving end.

What I don't get, is wanting the dom/me or top to lose control. I'm fine with (consensually) letting myself get carried away (i.e. intentionally relaxing my self restraint, while remaining in control). I'm not fine with getting carried away (i.e. actually losing control).

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/7/2013 4:09:56 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Quite. The only utility a "contract" has, is in establishing intent for both parties, and even that can be thrown out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




Even worse, it could be not thrown out. By establishing the dominant's intent to break the law, it would be quite useful to the prosecution.



Exactly.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/8/2013 4:50:17 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

Even worse, it could be not thrown out. By establishing the dominant's intent to break the law, it would be quite useful to the prosecution.


In my jurisdiction, a written statement of mutual intent goes a long way toward clearing the dominant of legal culpability, or at least establishing mitigating circumstances. This, of course, only applies if a male is on the receiving end. If a sub or bottom wants the dom(me) or top to exceed their limits, the simpler thing would be to just consent to that, which is (here) perfectly legal. Again, of course, only if a male is on the receiving end.



That may be true in Norway. In many English speaking countries, one cannot lawfully consent to be murdered, to be battered or to have certain other crimes committed against you. A dominant going too far, in those jurisdictions, would be legally guilty of battery. The fact that the "victim" consented would be irrelevant. A contract that states such battery will occur would serve only as evidence that the dominant went into the situation INTENDING to commit battery.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/9/2013 10:59:21 AM   
MarineKitten


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2012
Status: offline 		It does happen, but normally it is done by people who don't know what the fuck they are doing. It's one thing to try pushing limits, and something completely different when you disregard limits all together. Someone with experience will know the difference and talk it over with the sub before anything happens.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/9/2013 11:01:13 AM   
MarineKitten


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/21/2012
Status: offline 		Woops my bad

< Message edited by MarineKitten -- 4/9/2013 11:02:12 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/11/2013 12:50:39 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Nope, it never happens with canes. However, there is a getting carried away with knitting needles and toboggans epidemic.


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RE: Sub guys dream ot Domme losing control - 4/11/2013 6:54:40 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Nope. Never happens.

Why do you ask?

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simul justus et peccator
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Profile   Post #: 40
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