RE: Is it harder for black subs?

RE: Is it harder for black subs? (Full Version)

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Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 6:55:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 I've been told by quite a few white Dommes that black men are "naturally dominant", and that they don't believe that there is such a thing as a "black male sub". I've also come across innumerable Domme profiles that explicitly say "NO BLACK MEN". I'm sure you've seen that as well. Others say that they just don't trust black men enough to invite them into their home or be alone with them in private. These are stereotypes that white male subs typically don't have to deal with. But if you persevere, you can overcome them. This surprised me, in a disappointing way. When I read the topic of the OP, my first thought was, No, it's about ratio, not race. It's unfortunate that race decreases the odds even more. NuevaVida, Yes, it is unfortunate. I typically try to be positive in my posts, and I generally avoid the threads that are focused on race. But this one deserved an honest reply. I have had many negative experiences during my time in the lifestyle that I believe were based strictly upon my race. It's something that I typically don't like to make a big deal about. But I also thought that it would be unfair to the OP to not share some of my experiences with him. I also think that it's worthwhile to share with people like yourself, who may not realize that racism is still rather common in the BDSM community. Don't get me wrong. It's typically not overt. I've never been denied access to an event, or called the N-word (well, actually I HAVE been called the N-word), but it's more the types of things that I mentioned above. There has been a general reluctance to play with me or get to know me based on my race, rather than an actual knowledge of who I am as a person. And I have shared in the past how some white Dommes have asked me to participate in race play with them (which I have always refused to do). I have been asked to play a plantation slave. I've also been asked to pretend to be a gang member and participate in a rape fantasy. I think both people were just trying to fulfill a fantasy, and really didn't see it as a racist or insulting request. I realize that many offensive actions are performed without the offender even realizing what they've done. But that doesn't negate the fact that they do the things that they do. :-(

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 7:07:41 AM)
OP, I just took a moment to read your profile for the first time, and I'd like to reiterate what some others have said. First, you probably want to expand upon your profile. One paragraph probably isn't enough to let the ladies know just how awesome you are. [;)] Also, as some others have mentioned, you are only 20 years old. That's going to work against you with some Dommes. It's pretty common around here to see male subs who are under 25 start threads about how their youth seems to be a handicap when it comes to finding a Domme. After all, some Dommes on this site have children your age, so playing with you might feel rather creepy to them. But if you get involved with the local BDSM group in your area, they probably have a TNG component that is in the same age bracket as you are. Good luck to you. -Roch

MadamAsianDom -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 8:11:26 AM)
FR: Re "any tips" - Having glanced at your profile, my tips would be (in addition to those already given), ensure that you fix the typo currently on your profile (you have Goddess spelled with one "s". Granted it's only one typo, but considering how little you currently have on your profile, it really stands out.), upload a better quality photo (The only one you currently have up is poor resolution. At a guess, I would assume it's because the picture was originally smaller.) and then make the better quality photo your main profile photo. As others had already stated, add more to your profile (and ensure anything you add has correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Re the question about whether or not black male submissives have it harder, I agree with Rochsub2009's various comments. I would add that from my own experiences, people of ethnic backgrounds have it harder in general in the lifestyle because you have to deal with the a) racist people, b) the ignorant people (and no, that's not necessarily the same people as the racist people), c) the people who want to fetishize you just based off of your ethnicity (and don't realize what a turn off or how flat out offensive that is), d) that fact that you're a minority in the vanilla world and you're an even bigger minority in the kinky one which can make it even more uncomfortable to get involved in the community. Everyone may not have any and/or all of those experiences I've listed, but those have been mine as a bi-racial (Asian) woman.

LadyPact -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 3:39:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midmichiganguy But anyways, moving on. OP, don't be a fool and don't let others use you. Keep an open mind and don't spend more time or effort than what you are receiving in return. If you don't self-monitor the people/places/events/ etc. then you will regret your decisions in this lifestyle. The rest I deleted as I'm not going to debate verbal diarrhea. I highly doubt there is any point to wasting keystrokes about how rare it is when there are instances about how it is always everyone's fault except for one person in the scenario. To the OP, I do agree with the part about keeping an open mind. See for yourself. You have nothing to lose by giving your local community a shot. Much to miss if you never give it a chance.

midmichiganguy -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 4:39:59 PM)
Amazing how when reality towards real life events and the majority of people attending them comes calling you suddenly label it 'verbal diarrhea' and refuse to engage. But hey you go right ahead and fill this young gentleman's mind with your positive illusions and when he discovers otherwise then we will see who had the true 'verbal diarrhea'. OP, you look like your healthy and you care about your body. I bet you must work very hard to get there and to maintain it! Kudos! I know how hard that is to achieve and you have every right to be proud. Now keep in mind all that hard work and sacrifice you put in for that goal when you first start going to events. Just wait and see how you get treated by hedonists who don't care about their physical or mental well-being. Wait until you have people look at you with disgust because your very presence as a healthy person offends them and their own lack of self-discipline. Oh yes and did I forget to mention those people whose concept of good hygene includes bathing once every 2 or 3 days? Or who are wearing clothes with yesterdays food stains on them? So yes, wait and see and judge for yourself and I am certain you will find the disappointment in people that so many other male submissives have found to be true about real world events.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 4:53:23 PM)
Jeez, midmichiganguy. I don't go to munches much, because in my experience there are a lot of dysfunctional people at them with crappy boundaries. But so what? Not every munch is the same, and not every person who goes is the same either. You're spewing your "I'm still single" bitterness all over this thread. Can you pick up women in vanilla? Do you make enough money to pay for an erotic massage? Do one or the other tonight, and feel less alone. That's my advice. I would hate to be inside your mind right now. OP: I strongly suggest you take advice from people who have been successful at building healthy relationships, instead of taking advice from people who have been unsuccessful at doing so.

midmichiganguy -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:01:29 PM)
RedMagic1, I am actually in a very loving very vanilla relationship right now and have been for almost 8 months. I am gradually introducing her to kink and bringing out her dominance and self-confidence. Tomorrow night we are celebrating our anniversary together with my parents and hers. So I am definitely not single. I am however bitter towards munches, play parties, real life events, etc. etc. Or more specifically bitter towards the people who attend them. Why? Because the vast majority of people I have met over the last decade in real life who attend these affairs were dysfunctional. They were abusive. They were manipulative. And they hid it all behind their kink. Most people in this lifestyle are shallow, conceited and very hypocritical on levels they will never realize and to depths of their psyches that are incomprehensible to themselves. So if I come across as bitter in this area it is only because the people have made me so. I just foolishly allowed a decade of my life to go by before I genuinely understood it or realized it. And so if my vitriol can get other young submissives to think for themselves, to explore other avenues, and to find happiness elsewhere then I will continue to turn them that way. Now outside of this lifestyle I am actually a very happy, very mellow and laid back person. quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Jeez, midmichiganguy. I don't go to munches much, because in my experience there are a lot of dysfunctional people at them with crappy boundaries. But so what? Not every munch is the same, and not every person who goes is the same either. You're spewing your "I'm still single" bitterness all over this thread. Can you pick up women in vanilla? Do you make enough money to pay for an erotic massage? Do one or the other tonight, and feel less alone. That's my advice. I would hate to be inside your mind right now. OP: I strongly suggest you take advice from people who have been successful at building healthy relationships, instead of taking advice from people who have been unsuccessful at doing so.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:06:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I agree with the other comments, but I also think there's something to the question you're asking. I have heard dom women say things like "black subs are more likely to be a pain in the ass to train." And I don't think this was a racist-type thing per se, but rather a comment on how black men in America, on average, learn to treat women. So I'd be interested to see if someone with more direct experience could pick this up and either agree or disagree with me. I don't think it's a racist statment, but it is a lack of understanding regarding our cultural differences. In general, black men grow up with less social support systems, and resources to be more upper crust, and know how to treat women. Lack of fathers or mothers in the household. Lateral violence among blacks, in large part because of history. Most black men/people are slow to seek special training or counseling for what is lacking, because they don't know better, or feel it makes them appear weak to do so. Respecting women can only come from being educated that way, by both parents. Otherwise, they don't know much better; especially when it comes to submitting... Especially to women. There are so many very basic things that uneducated parents cannot teach their children. Some as simple as, NEVER call a woman out of her name, even if she is a streetwalker. Do not look down on her. Opening car door, standing when the lady leaves the table, walk on the street side of the sidewalk, never walk in front of a lady, being vulnerable and romantic, pay at a restaurant, or offer to cook for her, etc. For these reasons, I would imagine that as a group, black or foreign men may be a little bit more work to bring to proper submissive status. What I have observed as a black woman is, that black men become fairly agreable, romantic, and kind when dating interracially (especially white women). One year you see him behaving crass, and treating black wife like the worthless, and next year, he looks completely evolved the way he seems to be tending to the girl from the other ethnicity. I hope that helps, and as always, YMMV. M

LadyPact -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midmichiganguy Amazing how when reality towards real life events and the majority of people attending them comes calling you suddenly label it 'verbal diarrhea' and refuse to engage. But hey you go right ahead and fill this young gentleman's mind with your positive illusions and when he discovers otherwise then we will see who had the true 'verbal diarrhea'. What would you expect a person to say? I've been involved in kink about that long and have done events across eight different states. One of them, unfortunately, has not been Michigan. I can no more disprove your bad experiences that you can disprove My good ones. I used that particular term because you have so much negativity about you. I know there is no point in asking you if such negativity may have influenced your experiences. I've got a feeling that you feel you had no impact and it was just all people being mean to you. Best of luck on your eight month old relationship. Might I suggest that, since you feel real life people have no experience, skill, or insight to offer, you might be helped by taking advantage of the book list that is provided here. There are some entries that may provide educational for a new Dominant.

DarkSteven -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midmichiganguy I am however bitter towards munches, play parties, real life events, etc. etc. Or more specifically bitter towards the people who attend them. Why? Because the vast majority of people I have met over the last decade in real life who attend these affairs were dysfunctional. They were abusive. They were manipulative. And they hid it all behind their kink. Most people in this lifestyle are shallow, conceited and very hypocritical on levels they will never realize and to depths of their psyches that are incomprehensible to themselves. So if I come across as bitter in this area it is only because the people have made me so. I just foolishly allowed a decade of my life to go by before I genuinely understood it or realized it. And so if my vitriol can get other young submissives to think for themselves, to explore other avenues, and to find happiness elsewhere then I will continue to turn them that way. Now outside of this lifestyle I am actually a very happy, very mellow and laid back person. Weird. I've been to two different munches (Longmont and Colorado Springs) and play parties at Scarlet Moons, the R&L party, the Sanctuary, Uncommon Ground, Colorado Whips, and several private parties. I have seen five to ten people who I consider dysfunctional at all of them, out of a few hundred people.

OsideGirl -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I can no more disprove your bad experiences that you can disprove My good ones. Same here. I found the socials I've attended to be fun. But, then again, my goal in attending the socials was to meet others in the community and have fun. If you go with the sole purpose of meeting your forever partner, it's going to be long boring road while you deal with people that aren't the one. quote: I used that particular term because you have so much negativity about you. I know there is no point in asking you if such negativity may have influenced your experiences. I've got a feeling that you feel you had no impact and it was just all people being mean to you. I get the same vibe.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 5:48:36 PM)
Yeah, I agree. Look, I've almost exclusively dated POC, in kink and nilla, my whole adult life. Some of these women couldn't care less about skin color, but some explicitly sought out white guys because they were at least perceived to be nicer to women. "I used to date Korean guys, but they are much more sexist than white guys"; "I don't like being around black people sometimes, because they tease me for talking white because I'm educated"; "I moved to a white neighborhood in Chicago as soon as I could, not because I wanted to be around white people, but because I wanted to get away from the n*grs." And, honestly, I think some of those opinions were overreactions the ladies talked themselves into, because they got flak for dating someone who looked like me, so they needed to have extra motivation to date outside the race. And they weren't really anti-black, or anti-Asian, or whatever. It was more, they wanted a petit-bourgeois 21st century America, college-educated liberal-minded guy. Hard to find someone like that in the old neighborhood, or the Old Country. Much more an economic preference than a race preference, even if sometimes they didn't even see that themselves. That's my analysis anyway.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 6:42:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Yeah, I agree. Look, I've almost exclusively dated POC, in kink and nilla, my whole adult life. Some of these women couldn't care less about skin color, but some explicitly sought out white guys because they were at least perceived to be nicer to women. "I used to date Korean guys, but they are much more sexist than white guys"; "I don't like being around black people sometimes, because they tease me for talking white because I'm educated"; "I moved to a white neighborhood in Chicago as soon as I could, not because I wanted to be around white people, but because I wanted to get away from the ngrs." This didn't sit very well with my gut. It is extremely important not to lump any particular group or city, and label them all, and this paragraph is problematic for me. Poor, undereducated white folks are equally socially awkward. I would think that the educated person, without racial animus, of any ethnicity, would respect each, and all persons, and consider them equal as human beings. Having said that, it's more than a little inappropriate to say here, that you wanted to get away from people not because they were less educated, and less socioeconomically equal, but because they were ngrs. I take a little issue with the use of Ngrs by the way. Good that you got away to people who were more like you. You should know that it is possible to find educated, socioeconomically privilledged black people like you, or possibly better (if we're qualifying) in Montgomery County, MD, and Fairfax County, VA; I mention these because I've been/lived there. Are you under the impression that undereducated white people behave less ignorantly than poor underducated black folks? quote:* And they weren't really anti-black, or anti-Asian, or whatever. It was more, they wanted a petit-bourgeois 21st century America, college-educated liberal-minded guy. Hard to find someone like that in the old neighborhood, or the Old Country. Much more an economic preference than a race preference, even if sometimes they didn't even see that themselves. That's my analysis anyway. Well one never knows what is in anyone's heart, but this is perfectly undestandable on its face. People what to stay where they are or elevate selves socially. There are only so many black guys that would serve for those purposes. Bottom line is LoyalBlackOne, it is harder for black subs, but this situation is no different than anything else. There are plenty of people seeking quality black subs, so get your mind open, and learn lots, and you'll be scooped up in no time. Welcome, and I hope you stay, and enjoy the boards. M

midmichiganguy -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 6:43:57 PM)
All I can say is that I have attended more munches than I can count, more play parties than I care to remember, and more events both local and national such as Beat Me In St. Louis, Vicious Valentine, Whipstock, etc. etc. than I really should have and at each of those it was not that I felt the people were being mean but rather that the people were less than desirable individuals on many, many, levels. Many of those same events I have seen a multitude of single male submissives basically get shunned because people thought they had ulterior motives such as getting laid. I could go on and on and on but I won't. There is no point to it. Yes, I am negative. Yes, I am jaded. Yes, I am extremely cynical. Yes, all of that is directed to the people in this lifestyle. And when I sit down with local subs and point out who to watch out for here in Michigan, what petty dramas they have created, what mental health issues that particular person has, what cliques there are and why, etc. etc. usually the person looks at me in disbelief. That is until I start pulling out emails, pointing out particular dates, times, participants, etc. etc. That is when that person questions themselves and hopefully goes the other way and avoids it all and hopefully ends up living a life not burdened by the bs this lifestyle presents. So I consider my shared negativity and experiences with people to be serving a greater social good in that context IF I can keep one person from entering this lifestyle. Okay, now I am done and the OP can have this thread back. Good luck to him and may he choose wisely and go the other way with his interests.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 7:08:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig This didn't sit very well with my gut. Just in case it wasn't clear, those were all quotes I've encountered "in the wild," from women I've dated. Not my own opinions or ways I'd phrase things. I tend to understand the world through the color green, not the colors white/black.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 7:40:14 PM)
Got it. Thanks for clarifying. The quotes didn't seem specically attributed to the women in the prior sentence. quote: midmichiganguy Yes, I am negative. Yes, I am jaded. Yes, I am extremely cynical. Yes, all of that is directed to the people in this lifestyle. And when I sit down with local subs and point out who to watch out for here in Michigan, what petty dramas they have created, what mental health issues that particular person has, what cliques there are and why, etc. etc. usually the person looks at me in disbelief. That is until I start pulling out emails, pointing out particular dates, times, participants, etc. etc. That is when that person questions themselves and hopefully goes the other way and avoids it all and hopefully ends up living a life not burdened by the bs this lifestyle presents. So I consider my shared negativity and experiences with people to be serving a greater social good in that context IF I can keep one person from entering this lifestyle This is wayyyyyyy too much drama, and bullchit for one person to carry around, and spread. What man acts this way?! Speaking of petty, catty, and bitter! You my dear midmichiganguy, sound like you need some counseling to save yourself, instead of saving people from entering this lifestyle. M

NuevaVida -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/9/2013 9:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 I realize that many offensive actions are performed without the offender even realizing what they've done. But that doesn't negate the fact that they do the things that they do. :-( I agree this happens a lot, over a broad variety of subjects. I hear unintended offensive remarks all the time, by people who don't have a clue that what they're saying is hurtful or offensive. Thank you for sharing what you did. I appreciate the honesty you relay in your posts, even if it's an honesty that isn't so attractive. I'm sorry you've had to deal with the ignorance of others.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/10/2013 6:48:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midmichiganguy I am however bitter towards munches, play parties, real life events, etc. etc. Or more specifically bitter towards the people who attend them. Why? Because the vast majority of people I have met over the last decade in real life who attend these affairs were dysfunctional. They were abusive. They were manipulative. And they hid it all behind their kink. Most people in this lifestyle are shallow, conceited and very hypocritical on levels they will never realize and to depths of their psyches that are incomprehensible to themselves. So if I come across as bitter in this area it is only because the people have made me so. I just foolishly allowed a decade of my life to go by before I genuinely understood it or realized it. And so if my vitriol can get other young submissives to think for themselves, to explore other avenues, and to find happiness elsewhere then I will continue to turn them that way. MidMichiganGuy, Please understand that I am not attacking you here. But I must respond to this. You are not making yourself sound very good in this thread. Look at the paragraph above. You paint the entire BDSM community with a VERY BROAD brush. Implying that all munches, play parties, and real life events are bad based on your limited experience is naive at best, and foolish at worst. Okay, so you belonged to a group that you didn't get along with. Get over it. Your experience doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like that. After all, the people in your BDSM group are not members of every other BDSM group in the world. So to expect them all to behave like those in your group is just silly. Personally, I've worked at jobs that I didn't enjoy. I've had work colleagues that I didn't like. I've been treated poorly by bosses in the past. But my response to that wasn't to say that ALL jobs are bad, and to tell young people that employment should be avoided at all cost because the people who work at jobs are all dysfunctional and abusive. But that's essentially what you did. I'm not questioning your negative experiences. They probably happened just as you described. But to extrapolate your experiences to groups throughout the world is simply illogical. Also, you have to take some personal responsibility in this whole thing. What sane individual requires a full decade to determine that he isn't enjoying himself and is being treated badly by those around him? Think about that for a moment. No, REALLY think about it. Then tell me that you can't see why you might sound like a whiner and a social misfit to those of us who don't know you. Like I said, I am not attacking you, and I apologize if it feels like I am. But I am trying to shine a mirror on you so you can see what you look like to the rest of us. Hopefully, your future experiences in BDSM will be more enjoyable than your past experiences. -Roch

DarkSteven -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/10/2013 7:27:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midmichiganguy All I can say is that I have attended more munches than I can count, more play parties than I care to remember, and more events both local and national such as Beat Me In St. Louis, Vicious Valentine, Whipstock, etc. etc. than I really should have and at each of those it was not that I felt the people were being mean but rather that the people were less than desirable individuals on many, many, levels. Many of those same events I have seen a multitude of single male submissives basically get shunned because people thought they had ulterior motives such as getting laid. I could go on and on and on but I won't. There is no point to it. Yes, I am negative. Yes, I am jaded. Yes, I am extremely cynical. Yes, all of that is directed to the people in this lifestyle. And when I sit down with local subs and point out who to watch out for here in Michigan, what petty dramas they have created, what mental health issues that particular person has, what cliques there are and why, etc. etc. usually the person looks at me in disbelief. That is until I start pulling out emails, pointing out particular dates, times, participants, etc. etc. That is when that person questions themselves and hopefully goes the other way and avoids it all and hopefully ends up living a life not burdened by the bs this lifestyle presents. So I consider my shared negativity and experiences with people to be serving a greater social good in that context IF I can keep one person from entering this lifestyle. Okay, now I am done and the OP can have this thread back. Good luck to him and may he choose wisely and go the other way with his interests. As far as the others being nasty and mean, I'll discount that. But I do agree with you that the prevailing climate is maledom/femsub, and I've seen malesubs having a hard time fitting in at play parties.

LoyalBlackOne -> RE: Is it harder for black subs? (4/10/2013 9:31:03 AM)
I want to thank everyone for their replies and honest opinions so far. For once, I don't feel alone in this lifestyle and that's all because of you all. I'll keep waiting and be patient. That'll make it so much more special when I finally find my Goddess. Thank you all.

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