Zonie63
Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: vincentML
Perhaps some people have the facility to overcome their emotions and make purely rational choices, to go against the grain of what feels good or what terrifies. Perhaps, but I suspect a rather heroic effort is involved. I doubt that in mundane, everyday life people can step out of the box of their internal determinants. Don't you suppose that is why we defend so passionately our positions on politics, sex, and religion?
On the bright side, though, we really can do it. We just have to want to, and, most important of all, persist in the effort. Parents and good role models can give us a head start. Lacking that, it's harder. And yes, for some people it can be very hard indeed. In fact, I wouldn't call it easy for anyone. But I wonder sometimes whether people don't think it's possible, or whether they just don't think it's worth it. While the benefit to society is obvious, the benefit to the individual seems less so: Self-esteem.
K.
This is an interesting discussion.
I'm not religious, although I've viewed it from the view that we have freedom of choice (and presumably learned knowledge of the consequences and risks behind our choices), limited by the physical laws of the universe and probability.
"Free will" seems to be more in the realm of thoughts and intentions and how they lead up to the choices and actions we may take. I believe I can control my actions and recognize that I must accept the consequences of my actions. However, I can't always control my thoughts or intentions, especially when I'm in a brief state of involuntary emotion. I have to wait until my emotions subside before I can sit down and rationally go over my choices. During that time, I may have taken the Lord's name in vain a dozen times, committed adultery in my heart, coveted my neighbor's oxen, and dishonored my parents - all within my own mind - before I actually take any action which might impact on someone else or that would actually be illegal and would have consequences.
The Seven Deadly Sins are not about the actions that people take, but more about emotional states of being, what's inside one's mind and heart. That's what these religions always say "God knows what's inside your heart." Greed, lust, envy, sloth, wrath, pride, gluttony. These are more internal conditions which may or may not be a result of someone's free will, but they don't necessarily involve making choices which would trespass against or violate the rights of other people. Granted, these are conditions which could lead to serious violations and sins against other people, but in and of themselves, they're mainly internal conditions which may be caused by any number of factors.
"Lust" is just plain unfair. Humans are hardwired for lust, related to our reproductive instincts. God even said to "be fruitful and multiply" and he gives us hormones and all the programming to turn us into lust-crazed poon-hounds, but then turns around and says "Ah-ah-ah-ah! No, no, no, it's a SIN to feel lust!" To top it off, if we do feel lust, then it's supposedly a reflection of our free will, and then it becomes our fault.
"Greed" and "gluttony" might be sins, but let's face it: Given the conditions that God handed us this planet, most of the time, humans went without - hunger, cold, disease, deprivation, storms, earthquakes, etc. This is how we learned to accumulate and stock up during times of plenty, because we had gotten used to being without most of the time. We learned to kill and steal from other humans, too, since God said "be fruitful and multiply" but didn't really leave enough to eat. That's where "envy" and "wrath" probably come from, too.
I don't think people can control these emotions completely, but we can curb them or restrain them so that we can still keep rational control over our choices and actions.
I don't think we have "free will" in the sense that we can control every little thing that might pop into our head. Just the fact that people tend to forget things and have mental lapses - that may be just a matter of faulty hardware, not something that's a reflection of "free will."
Sometimes Free Will is often compared with Predestination, which I also don't believe in (although I was kind of an astrology buff when I was in my teen years). But that may be why astrology is considered a sin, since it implies predestination, which goes against concepts of free will.
|
RE: The depraved paradise? - 
Profile
.gif){kind=avatar}
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread