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[Poll]

Dominance, Submission, and Gender

Men are the natural dominants

7% (12)

Women are the natural dominants

1% (2)

Dominance has nothing to do with gender

38% (58)

Men are more dominant, but there are exceptions

19% (29)

Women are more dominant, but there are exceptions

1% (2)

You're doing this poll to start a big argument

19% (30)

I'm glad these things are anonymous

11% (18)

Total Votes : 151

(last vote on : 11/8/2013 11:41:51 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 4:43:43 AM

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http://www.collarchat.com/m_4424088/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4425089

Some female celebs have recently gotten a bit of backlash for publicy stating their deference to the men in their lives.

How much do you think gender plays in D/s? Just guessing here, but I'm thinking most will say "little to none", but let's do a poll, anyway...

Multiple choices are allowed.

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Post #: 1

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 4:55:40 AM

ResidentSadist

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There is a natural order, a predisposed dominant trend as defined by gender. Trend as in majority, which allows for exceptions. Civilization and the separation of humans from nature and over exposure to one an other has set up a wider margin for the exceptions to flourish.

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 5:04:45 AM

HisPet21

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I think that society oftentimes assigns "dominant" and "submissive" roles to the genders, so that in various cultures, you may see clear trends linking gender and dominance/submission. But ultimately, gender has nothing to do with it. It's a cultural issue and more importantly, it can be overcome by individuals who go against the trend. So, generalizations may sometimes be accurate, but basing decisions off of them is never a good idea. I hope that bit of babbling made sense...

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 3

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 5:54:14 AM

JeffBC

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I went with "nothing to do with" but that doesn't exactly match my thoughts (what poll does?). I think there is a gender bias towards male dominance but I think it's small enough that there are more exceptions than rules.

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 5:58:13 AM

LadyPact

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I don't honestly think that it has to do with gender. I think it's more to more with personality traits as well as a combination of nature and nurture.

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 6:11:23 AM

ResidentSadist

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I agree in that I think like the social order and psychology in a wolf pack, there are personality traits that define who the alpha male and alpha female will be. But there are notable differences between the genders predisposing them to better suited for different roles . . . i.e. in humans, male hunters / female gatherers. Along those same lines, if the OP is weighing in the personality traits to ask about differences and measures of dominance between those alpha males and alpha females . . . I think the differences between the genders does predispose one gender to a dominant trend. Note "trend", as in yes there are exceptions but yes, look at the studies and there is a trend.

ETA: Here is one gender example from the Difference Theory which is about how men and women communicate differently.

Orders v. proposals
Men will use direct imperatives ("close the door", "switch on the light") when speaking to others. Women encourage the use of superpolite forms, however ("let's", "would you mind if ...?").

Conflict v. compromise
Tannen asserts that most women avoid conflict in language at all costs, and instead attempt to resolve disagreements without any direct confrontation, so as to maintain positive connection and rapport. Men, on the other hand, are more likely to use confrontation as a way of resolving differences and thereby negotiating status.

. . . .Basically they are saying men tend to tell you what to do and will fight you for it where women tend to ask and compromise before facing conflict. Those are the gender and dominance type of trends I am talking about.

Another ETA:

Note: I am not a fan of Tannen's book. . . although I think she was on the right track, she just got on the wrong train. But then again, I wasn't hot on that Men are from Mars, Women from Venus book either and everyone else held it up like a bible on understanding gender differences.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 4/15/2013 6:29:50 AM >

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 6:25:02 AM

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Agreed. There's precious little that's black and white, but if you look at the curve, it favors men.

When raw, physical strength ruled, dominance probably very much was male; with the reduced reliance on physicality, I think that's allowed women, and a more feminine style of dominance to appear. To what extent that will advance....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Post #: 7

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 6:37:34 AM

JeffBC

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OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
but if you look at the curve, it favors men.

What curve? Do you have a study handy? How did they define "dominance"??? The only actual definition (as in, drawn from some field of science) I know of for that word means, "preferred access to resources such as food & mates". By that measure among humans the measure of dominance is wealth. Is that what you are referring to?

quote:

When raw, physical strength ruled

Among humans? When exactly was this? Can you support your claim? To the best of my knowledge the most dangerous weapon of humans has never been teeth & claws.

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Post #: 8

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 6:46:59 AM

ResidentSadist

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Am I the only one that took anthropology in college? Pic an anthropology text book, any of them. It is all spelled out pretty clearly.

Let me Google that for you so you can take your pic of the hundreds of peer reviewed articles, text books and studies.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=gender+dominance+anthropology&FORM=AWRE

http://www.bing.com/search?q=gender+dominance+theory&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=gender+&sc=8-7&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 4/15/2013 6:50:39 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 6:53:33 AM

Level

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No studies, no links, just observations and opinion

As for human "weapons", wiles and wants, and the capacity to do whatever it takes to scratch those itches, has indeed had a long history of influence (if that's what you meant), but I believe male strength, either in its more obvious brute use, or as exhibited through the control of laws, and commerce, etc, has a more pronounced impact, overall.

Then again, we seldom had access behind closed doors, so...

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 10

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 7:02:24 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Am I the only one that took anthropology in college? Pic an anthropology text book, any of them. It is all spelled out pretty clearly.

LOL... I can't remember what I took in college but seriously thank you for the lead on "social dominance theory". I'll be doing some digging on that. I have, in the past, tried to find actual scientific papers on humans and D/s and failed miserably so this looks like a hot lead.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Post #: 11

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 8:28:42 AM

ResidentSadist

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I guess I had a leg up on it then because my anthropology classes exposed me to that stuff. It can be very interesting to look back and learn how our society and its customs evolved. I loved my anthropology classes and almost wanted to make it my major but there was no money in it.

As an adult, ny interest in anthropology continued and I did some pyramid excavations in Mexico with my dad. There are over 200 unexcavated pyramids in the Yucatan peninsula. My dad had a high interest and he had a beach house on Isla Mujeres. I built him a custom 4x4 van. With his budget I was able to make it awesome, custom 318 motor, trans, 1.5 ton suspension, lifted, monster tires, iron push plates front and back with 3 tons winches. It got through the jungle to explore those pyramids. It was a blast. But after doing that for a few years, he got busted and was SLAMMED by the government for pulling off those tomb raider escapades. The army came in, took all the artifacts, seized my dads expensive (1.5 mil USD) house/complex in Cuernavaca on the mountain side. It was a nice house with two pools, guest house, atrium, sunken living room, full balconies. They tossed him out overnight. Oh yeah, anthropology . . . my advice, don't get caught with the artifacts. LOL

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 8:32:28 AM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

There is a natural order, a predisposed dominant trend as defined by gender. Trend as in majority, which allows for exceptions. Civilization and the separation of humans from nature and over exposure to one an other has set up a wider margin for the exceptions to flourish.

This is very astute (which means I agree).

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 10:01:34 AM

NiceButMeanGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't honestly think that it has to do with gender. I think it's more to more with personality traits as well as a combination of nature and nurture.

This. ^^^^

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 10:12:18 AM

PNWsub

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i can speak only for myself as a sub male, but i was introduced to Dom/sub at an early age. The submissive role was natural for me and being Dom just isn't in my makeup. i always found contentment in serving and pleasing others.

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 10:18:27 AM

TieMeInKnottss

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I actually believe it has more to do with birth order...Oldest children are groomed to be dominants and those who are also born with certain personality traits are even more likely to fall into that role... Youngest children have often been taught to obey a large number of people & to follow... I believe that a male born as the baby of a family is more likely to be a sub then a first born female would be...granted other things go into this now especially with the prevalence of blended families but sometime...take a poll and you will see a trend...you will have more firstborns who identify as "dominant" "alpha" "born leader"...

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Post #: 16

RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 1:21:16 PM

theshytype

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I honestly have no idea, but do know I was screwed (or blessed, which ever way you want to look at it) from the start. I believe I was born this way, nurtured this way to some degree, I'm female, and I'm the baby of the family.
I want to say nature had originally anticipated men to be dominant based on the physical.

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 3:08:05 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

I actually believe it has more to do with birth order...Oldest children are groomed to be dominants and those who are also born with certain personality traits are even more likely to fall into that role... Youngest children have often been taught to obey a large number of people & to follow... I believe that a male born as the baby of a family is more likely to be a sub then a first born female would be...granted other things go into this now especially with the prevalence of blended families but sometime...take a poll and you will see a trend...you will have more firstborns who identify as "dominant" "alpha" "born leader"...

I'm the firstborn and do tend to be alpha...outside the bedroom.

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 3:16:38 PM

HisPet21

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quote:

I actually believe it has more to do with birth order...Oldest children are groomed to be dominants and those who are also born with certain personality traits are even more likely to fall into that role... Youngest children have often been taught to obey a large number of people & to follow... I believe that a male born as the baby of a family is more likely to be a sub then a first born female would be...granted other things go into this now especially with the prevalence of blended families but sometime...take a poll and you will see a trend...you will have more firstborns who identify as "dominant" "alpha" "born leader"...

Interesting point; I would never have thought of that. I am the first child in my family and outside my romantic relationship, very much an alpha. But then, inside the house, it's different....hmmm.....

(in reply to kalikshama)

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RE: Dominance, Submission, and Gender - 4/15/2013 4:06:35 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss
I actually believe it has more to do with birth order...

This is old wisdom and, I suspect, also accurate. I've downloaded the reference Resident Sadist suggested (thank you library of congress). So it'll be an interesting read.

In the mean time, I'm the middle child. My brother is older. My sister is the baby. ALL of us are pretty damned dominant in the social sense. I was actually just having this discussion with my brother who doesn't believe he is dominant. Carol and I were rolling our eyes expressively. In his own words, "My wife damned well better obey in my family." Or... "The husky kept jumping up on me so I finally grabbed it's muzzle, pulled it down to the ground. Laid on it to hold it down then nipped it's flank with my teeth." But mind you. He's not dominant. I'm trying to convince him now that he's starting to be "on the market" that perhaps he should know about submissive women and maybe shop BDSM along with vanilla. It's slow going LOL.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 20

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