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ORIGINAL: Level

Agreed. There's precious little that's black and white, but if you look at the curve, it favors men.

When raw, physical strength ruled, dominance probably very much was male; with the reduced reliance on physicality, I think that's allowed women, and a more feminine style of dominance to appear. To what extent that will advance....

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Am I the only one that took anthropology in college? Pic an anthropology text book, any of them. It is all spelled out pretty clearly.

LOL... I can't remember what I took in college but seriously thank you for the lead on "social dominance theory". I'll be doing some digging on that. I have, in the past, tried to find actual scientific papers on humans and D/s and failed miserably so this looks like a hot lead.

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

LOL Jeff that describes me at work.

Now I'm on a new team, which is ridiculously cool with the brilliance of its members (as in I'm practically giddy all day from the conversations we engage in), yet we've joked about how most of us are natural leaders in the work place, and what's going to happen when we ALL step up to be in charge.

My main coworker and I have already acknowledged that we're going to clash sometimes and this is why, so when we do, let's pull our egos out of it, work through it, and do what's best overall.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Level can correct Me if I'm wrong, but here's what I'm thinking.
Hope that helps.

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ORIGINAL: ClassAct2006
I am very alpha, terribly competitive, very successful and men who really don't understand BDSM or dominance and submission, on vanilla sites cannot imagine because I am coherent competent and do not have life problems and can cope with life that somehow I cannot be submissive. I am also the oldest child.

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Perhaps we all just differ as individuals.

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I would be the dom in Tieme's post. If there's crisis people come to me. If neighbours need something fixing I do it. If there's a business issue I can usually solve it. I am probably also now the senior family member too. I think it would be really sad if that somehow made me a dom. I have always felt submissive and been so in all relationships with a boyfriend. The fact I have life competence and earn a lot does not mean I am not submissive. If I have to fail to be attractive... that would be such a shame.

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ORIGINAL: Level

We're using generalizations here, but will women continue to become a larger percentage of the dominant demographic, especially in a world where overt masculinity is of less value.

ETA: I'm talking about society as a whole, not just our kinky corner.

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ORIGINAL: Dreamless

Let me stress and underline that. By personality, I am indeed a caretaker! I like people happy, well fed, and I enjoy keeping them that way.

...And, you know, like beating people up a little, tying them up, doing terrible things and they can damn well listen to what I told'm to do. Somehow I came out a top when nothing about my upbringing ever told me I could dare be a leader.

For all I was percolated to be a heterosexual female sub, I am not. I don't have a highly dominant personality and command the world about me, granted, no. I take things as they come, easy come, easy go, and I'm of the impression that many people switch; the powerful business leader submits, the humble cleaner dominates. But when it comes to this kink thing, I know what I want and it's the whip and reins.

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From a historical standpoint, based on survival, yes, it makes sense for men to be dominant. We are no longer at odds with survival, where women as the only childbearers, who can feed children far more effectively than a man, have to stay home to have their children and raise those children, and men by default must be the hunter, to keep their family alive. Half of our children will not die, and there's no fight for mere survival. There's been a paradigm shift, one that mandates submission and domination are not required to simply survive.

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There are a great many people in this world and if I do not have children, it hurts no one, because twenty other women will have children instead of me and the world will keep on turning, and people will keep on living.

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Today, we live in a world where power is earned and submission is given. Where you are powerful because you do x, not because you are x.

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I would also argue that men being completely naturally dominant over women creates an imbalance of codependency that I've personally seen be very harmful to women after their husband dies or they're otherwise left alone. Which is why I think the natural balance should be precisely that: a balance, weight to weight, and shifted only with careful consideration to the consequences.

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Respect is a thing to be earned. It's nothing to do with gender. If it was, anyway, why would there be so danged many male subs? They're a thing, guys! A thing.

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: Dreamless
I would also argue that men being completely naturally dominant over women creates an imbalance of codependency that I've personally seen be very harmful to women after their husband dies or they're otherwise left alone. Which is why I think the natural balance should be precisely that: a balance, weight to weight, and shifted only with careful consideration to the consequences.

Heh... sadly, there is a big difference between someone who is "dominant" or "claims to be dominant" or "wants to be dominant" and someone who is a credible leader.

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ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnotts


This is where I veer off in my belief of dominant and submissive personalities. There is a way we all react to crisis situations...or times when our basic "coping skills" come into it. Even in small children (read about the Lost Boys of the Sudan. Some as small as 7 led and cared for older kids in that march) a natural propensity for being a leader or a follower will come out. Some people just seem to "know" or "believe" what is the right thing to do, what the solution to the problem is. They jump in...they organize, delegate, they have the vision of what is to be accomplished & they believe they know how to do it. That is not to say that they believe their way is "best" or "the only way" but they are able to formulate an acceptable plan & goal. They are the ones who will not go along with the "group consensus" if they think it is wrong...but nor do they force their will onto others...they just refuse to participate and go their own way. I think their are "degrees" of dominance. A true dominant recognizes when someone else may be a better leader or planner & will follow but their way of following is NOT the same as a subs way. They step aside, work towards the common goal that they believe in, set a good example by doing their share of the work, but they still watch over those below them & have no problem "breaking" away from the person in charge if he gets off track.

In the response about the Wall St guy and the outdoorsman...that is positional dominance. People who have mastered an area, become expert in something & are confident in their skill in this field. You have to delve into the willingness and ability to change their thoughts or direction. A Dom will follow another if HE or SHE thinks it is the right thing to do but, once that belief is gone..they have no problem walking away. A sub needs the direction or help in seeing the destination. They may be great "worker bees" but have a harder time figuring out where to go, how to get there and making & implementing the unpleasant decisions that go along with true dominance. Subs are needed for a Dom to really realize his/her vision but the Dom is needed by subs in order to conceptualize the vision.

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ORIGINAL: egern

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ORIGINAL: Level

We're using generalizations here, but will women continue to become a larger percentage of the dominant demographic, especially in a world where overt masculinity is of less value.

ETA: I'm talking about society as a whole, not just our kinky corner.

When you say the dominant demographic, do you mean personality, or perhaps more like jobs, leaders etc?

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ORIGINAL: Level

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ORIGINAL: egern

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ORIGINAL: Level

We're using generalizations here, but will women continue to become a larger percentage of the dominant demographic, especially in a world where overt masculinity is of less value.

ETA: I'm talking about society as a whole, not just our kinky corner.

When you say the dominant demographic, do you mean personality, or perhaps more like jobs, leaders etc?

I meant all of those, the society as a whole.