RE: Gun control - FAIL (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/21/2013 4:39:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

And that is exactly why we can't have government in control of healthcare. If Jack Meoff wants to drown his kidneys in shit sugar water, then let the bastard. But, when you make it everyone else's problem to pay Jack's way, then you introduce the government almost having a duty to make sure the money isn't being wasted, that Jack no longer can be unhealthy.

So you are in favor of unhealthy people?


If that is their choice, then, yes. I'm in favor of Liberty, Freedom to Self-Determine, etc. Aren't you?

quote:

quote:

What's next? Mandatory exercise programs? You think soda is bad for you? How about all us couch potatoes?

Seems to me that p.e is manditory in public school...has that changed?


Yeah, totally the same.

When do you report to your school for your daily requirement of Government Mandated PE?




SpanishMatMaster -> Reza Palhevi (4/21/2013 11:10:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Carter overthrew the shah of Iran, which is, more or less, the root of most of our current problems.
[8|] Ehm. You are sure about this, yes?




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 8:59:47 AM)

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.




Powergamz1 -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 9:59:49 AM)

And how exactly was the democratically elected Mossadegh 'more evil' than the Shah? And don't waste my time with a bunch of opposition gossip and propaganda, how is it more evil for the people of a country to elect their own leader?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 10:23:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
And how exactly was the democratically elected Mossadegh 'more evil' than the Shah? And don't waste my time with a bunch of opposition gossip and propaganda, how is it more evil for the people of a country to elect their own leader?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?

Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.


It all comes down to whether or not the people are smart enough or know enough to be able to take part in the election of their own leader. I mean, we have to make sure they elect the right person, don't we? [8D]




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 10:28:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And how exactly was the democratically elected Mossadegh 'more evil' than the Shah? And don't waste my time with a bunch of opposition gossip and propaganda, how is it more evil for the people of a country to elect their own leader?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.



The fall of the Shah led directly to the taking of the tehran embassy (twice) The radicals who ruled the "democraticaly elected" government led to the jihadest movement.

Keep in mind that the elected candidates were hand picked by anti American radicals.




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 10:29:52 AM)

quote:

It all comes down to whether or not the people are smart enough or know enough to be able to take part in the election of their own leader. I mean, we have to make sure they elect the right person, don't we?


The elections in Iran were as open and free as those in the Soviet Union.




thompsonx -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 10:51:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.


So who would you pick to be bff with hitler or stalin?




thompsonx -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 11:37:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

It all comes down to whether or not the people are smart enough or know enough to be able to take part in the election of their own leader. I mean, we have to make sure they elect the right person, don't we?


The elections in Iran were as open and free as those in the Soviet Union.


The elections in the soviet union were as open and free as in the u.s.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 11:38:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.


As a logical matter, this might be true in the short term, but certainly not the long term. In the long run, we should not have to choose evil.




thompsonx -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 12:08:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

And that is exactly why we can't have government in control of healthcare. If Jack Meoff wants to drown his kidneys in shit sugar water, then let the bastard. But, when you make it everyone else's problem to pay Jack's way, then you introduce the government almost having a duty to make sure the money isn't being wasted, that Jack no longer can be unhealthy.

So you are in favor of unhealthy people?


quote:

If that is their choice, then, yes. I'm in favor of Liberty, Freedom to Self-Determine, etc. Aren't you?

Why wont you answer the question???It really is not all that difficult a question. I did not ask you what the unhealthy persons opinion was I asked you if you were in favor of unhealthy people.

quote:

What's next? Mandatory exercise programs? You think soda is bad for you? How about all us couch potatoes?

Seems to me that p.e is manditory in public school...has that changed?


quote:

Yeah, totally the same.

Since the kis are required to go to school and p.e. is a mandatory class it is exactly the same thing. If they can do it to oe class of people "children" they can do it to any other class of people like "couch potatoes"

quote:

When do you report to your school for your daily requirement of Government Mandated PE?



When they mandte it just like you will. You drive on the rt. side of the street and nominally stop on red lights. Governments make laws and those rueled/governed obey if not there ar sanctions. If you do not like living in a society that is governed by the rule of law then you are free to leave.




DomKen -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 4:19:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And how exactly was the democratically elected Mossadegh 'more evil' than the Shah? And don't waste my time with a bunch of opposition gossip and propaganda, how is it more evil for the people of a country to elect their own leader?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Why are you in favor of the u.s. supporting dictators???Dont you believe in "freedom and justice for all".If you dont then I would suggest that you stop saying the pledge of allegience since that would be swearing to a lie?


Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of evils, in this case it was the Shah.



The fall of the Shah led directly to the taking of the tehran embassy (twice) The radicals who ruled the "democraticaly elected" government led to the jihadest movement.

Keep in mind that the elected candidates were hand picked by anti American radicals.

That's only because the CIA replaced the popularly elected PM with the Shah. And all because the british oil companies were mad that Iran had nationalized their oil reserves.




DomKen -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 4:20:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

It all comes down to whether or not the people are smart enough or know enough to be able to take part in the election of their own leader. I mean, we have to make sure they elect the right person, don't we?


The elections in Iran were as open and free as those in the Soviet Union.

Which ones? The ones that Mossadegh in power were clean by all reports.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 7:02:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

And that is exactly why we can't have government in control of healthcare. If Jack Meoff wants to drown his kidneys in shit sugar water, then let the bastard. But, when you make it everyone else's problem to pay Jack's way, then you introduce the government almost having a duty to make sure the money isn't being wasted, that Jack no longer can be unhealthy.

So you are in favor of unhealthy people?
quote:

If that is their choice, then, yes. I'm in favor of Liberty, Freedom to Self-Determine, etc. Aren't you?

Why wont you answer the question???It really is not all that difficult a question. I did not ask you what the unhealthy persons opinion was I asked you if you were in favor of unhealthy people.


Whether or not I'm in favor of a person being fat or not, isn't of any real concern. The point is that if a person freely makes lifestyle choices that result in him/her being fat, then I have no problem with that person being fat. It's not up to me. It's within a person's freedoms to choose his/her own path, provided it doesn't infringe on that same freedom for someone else.

quote:

quote:

What's next? Mandatory exercise programs? You think soda is bad for you? How about all us couch potatoes?

Seems to me that p.e is manditory in public school...has that changed?

quote:

Yeah, totally the same.

Since the kis are required to go to school and p.e. is a mandatory class it is exactly the same thing. If they can do it to oe class of people "children" they can do it to any other class of people like "couch potatoes"
quote:

When do you report to your school for your daily requirement of Government Mandated PE?

When they mandte it just like you will. You drive on the rt. side of the street and nominally stop on red lights. Governments make laws and those rueled/governed obey if not there ar sanctions. If you do not like living in a society that is governed by the rule of law then you are free to leave.


Would you have supported the Jim Crowe laws on those same merits? I certainly hope there aren't any laws you disagree with. Ever.




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 8:48:29 PM)

quote:

So who would you pick to be bff with hitler or stalin?


Didn't say anything about being friends, let alone best friends.
Right off hand I can't think of anyone to whom Hitler or Stalin would be the lesser evil.
The West helped keep Stalin in the war as long as he was killing Germans, are you saying we should have declared war on the Soviets too and had a three way war?




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 8:50:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

It all comes down to whether or not the people are smart enough or know enough to be able to take part in the election of their own leader. I mean, we have to make sure they elect the right person, don't we?


The elections in Iran were as open and free as those in the Soviet Union.


The elections in the soviet union were as open and free as in the u.s.

So you would be BFF with Stalin since they were as free as we were?




BamaD -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/22/2013 8:52:41 PM)

quote:

As a logical matter, this might be true in the short term, but certainly not the long term. In the long run, we should not have to choose evil.


Agreed change was needed but Khomanie was a step in the wrong direection. It was like replacing Mussellini (not a good guy) with Hitler (a much worse guy).

Before Mr says it. no I am not saying Khomanir was hitler.




YN -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/23/2013 3:27:55 AM)

The English and Russians and to a lesser extent the United States, and with other European nations and in particular France being bit players and their imperialism built the Iran you see today.

Iran (Persia) has one of the oldest histories as a nation on the planet. However for our purposes, their problems with the Russians, the English, and various supporting roles by Europeans and their colonials began in earnest in the 1700's. Russian seized various Persian provinces, The English seized various Persian territories. The French seized a few pieces of Persian property.

Most of this thievery did not occur peacefully. And the fighting and the naval blockades led to great famines where millions died.


This cumulated around 1900 with oil being found in Iran, and Imperial England and Imperial Russia arrogantly dividing Iran among themselves into two "spheres of influence" as detailed in the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907.

During WW1 the English, Russians and Turks occupied various parts of Iran. Following the war and when the Russians became the Soviet Union, the English attempted to make a "protectorate out of Iran. After this a military coup installed the Pahlavi dynasty, whose name graces the recent history of Iran. Additionally there was a great famine around from 1917-1921 which many in Iran (and elsewhere) credit the English and their empire for instigating and maintaining and which killed many millions (40% or Iran's population it is said.)

There were various revolts between the world wars, and in 1941 the English and the Russians again invaded, under the pretense of keeping Iran out of Axis influence.

They installed the man most call "the Shah" as their puppet. After the war, the Allied powers created the fiction the nation was a constitutional monarchy, and were unpleasantly surprised in 1951 when this fiction became fact, and the oil was nationalized.

A Anglo-American orchestrated coup occurred as a result, reinstalling the oil puppet Pahlavi and a long period of "martial law." This coup was highly resented by the Iranian public, as was the ensuing autocracy.

In 1979 Iran successfully revolted and became the "Islamic Republic" of today. They were then subject to attack by the Anglo-European and Saud and their Arab associates supported Iraq, and subject to various other Anglo-American instigated mischief.

After several centuries of fending off these foreign imperialists and thieves, and the deaths of many millions of their citizens the people of Iran developed a certain mind and extremely negative feelings and opinions about these foreign nations and their activities, ingrained in even their folklore.




thompsonx -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/23/2013 8:28:11 AM)

quote:

Whether or not I'm in favor of a person being fat or not, isn't of any real concern.

I said unhealthy not fat[/b

quote:

The point is that if a person freely makes lifestyle choices that result in him/her being fat, then I have no problem with that person being fat. It's not up to me.


I did not ask you if you were in favor of free choice I asked you if you were in favor of people being unhealthy. Why is that such a difficult question for you to answer?

quote:

t's within a person's freedoms to choose his/her own path, provided it doesn't infringe on that same freedom for someone else.

I will keep that in mind the next time I want to ask you what you feel about free choice.




thompsonx -> RE: Gun control - FAIL (4/23/2013 8:44:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

So who would you pick to be bff with hitler or stalin?


Didn't say anything about being friends, let alone best friends.
Right off hand I can't think of anyone to whom Hitler or Stalin would be the lesser evil.
The West helped keep Stalin in the war as long as he was killing Germans, are you saying we should have declared war on the Soviets too and had a three way war?

You do not seem to know much about the russian involvement in ww2...They cerinly did not need the small amount of help we gave them.




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