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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/3/2013 4:53:41 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

see this is tha problem with tha debate on afghanistan & pakistan in tha west. its dominated by anti war ideologues. if it werent ya would have heard a major percentage of tha pakistani population is ok wit em. if ya want cites i can give.


Newsflash.....Debates usually have two sides, pro and anti.

I`d also like to see your cites re a major percentage of Pakistanis being pro drone strikes please.


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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/3/2013 5:28:24 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
yr point is?

Twofold: accuracy, and the notability of 23 children killed, in terms of understanding local reactions.

is not saying a big number killed were civilian enough to describe a major tragedy.


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thats a pure lie. shah wali kot is one of loadsa pashtun areas in kandahar.

Correct, Kandahar is primarily Pashtun territory; how is that a lie?

hope yr not playing games wit quote edits. ya said they were prevented voting by karzai & karzai wasnt pashtun. they r clear untruths.


quote:

quote:

kandahar was a big issue in tha election coz tha taliban tried to stop folks voting there & killed a large number over it coz a lot of it was under insurgent control at tha time.

More like the ANA wasn't interested in sticking their necks out to ensure votes for lesser citizens.

got a cite to prove that coz tha issue was bout tha inability of tha ALA to suppress tha insurgency in an area where theres a lot of taliban activity. tha ALA aint noted for strength.


quote:

quote:

yr making this shit up. karzai is pashtuni & proud

You're right, I made an embarassing mistake in mixing up data from two sources. I should've checked. Mea culpa.

That said, a lot of Pashtun do not seem to count him as Pashtun-friendly, the corruption level is insane, and he's been consistently deferring the concerns of Pashtuns elsewhere. Also, as noted, in several places, Pashtun have been prevented from voting, and the ANA has not made it a priority, for the reasons stated earlier.

karzai is pashtun & hes proud of it writing bout it in his autobiography. tha corruption affects everyone pashtun or not. karzai only takes a small wage & owns no property.


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dude yr making this shit up. tha taliban was started by pakistans secret service tha isi. aint tha same as tha mujahadeen.

The Taliban were supported by the ISI, certainly, though not started by them, as far as I can recall.

tha isi did start tha taliban & pakistanis made up least half tha organization.


quote:

But what does the Taliban have to do with what I said?

ya said tha US radicalized tha mujahadeen & that led to tha situation wit tha invasion of afghanistan fighting tha taliban. tha US didnt aid tha taliban.


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quote:

tha US didnt radicalize tha mujahadeen. they gave 'em arms after they had already rebelled against tha soviets.

That's an interesting interpretation of history.

tha commies took over & the people started to revolt round 1978. tha ussr came in round 79 & then tha US & other countries started helping tha rebels.


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tha taliban banned poppy cultivation way back at tha end of tha 90s not tha US.

Yup. And they got quite a bit of flak from the other, similar organizations in the country over that. The "and your family, too" kind of flak. We continued the policy.

nato couldnt change tha situation back coz of tha drug ramifications. ya could criticize them for doing it wit no assistance but tha fact is they didnt ban tha poppy in tha first place.

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nah, tha taliban arent some sorta informal militia of locals.

Why are you constantly getting back to the Taliban?

They're one of several such groups in Afghanistan. Just because it's popular to call every Afghani combattant Taliban doesn't make it so.

have ya not been reading the comments ya were replying to? it all started over afghanistan & tha taliban sheltering near a wedding party.

tha taliban is tha biggest group in afghanistan & i mentioned other groups operating there too like al qaeda.

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they draw fighting to villages & use human shileds. its been well reported & a bigger part of their startegy

Of course it's part of their strategy to use a moral shield. They also happen to live there.

Fox News isn't a source, incidentally, so I'm not sure why you included a link to them.

nah many folks in tha taliban are still foreign & not necessarily local. its a trained organized insurgency not some informal guerilla playacting wit guns under tha bed.

i posted fox coz i knew ya would dislike it. it certainly is a source & ya have tha content if ya want to dispute it do some google-fu.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 5/3/2013 5:57:12 PM >


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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/3/2013 5:36:34 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
see this is tha problem with tha debate on afghanistan & pakistan in tha west. its dominated by anti war ideologues. if it werent ya would have heard a major percentage of tha pakistani population is ok wit em. if ya want cites i can give.

Newsflash.....Debates usually have two sides, pro and anti.

I`d also like to see your cites re a major percentage of Pakistanis being pro drone strikes please.

1 side can be marginalised bud.

yr cite http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/you-say-pakistanis-all-hate-the-drone-war-prove-it/267447/

& heres another pakistani pro drone writer http://archives.dawn.com/archives/19917


< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 5/3/2013 5:46:39 PM >


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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/3/2013 9:10:58 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Nor do I have any idea what"[terrorism is] taught morre than as experienced" means. It might be that you are suggesting terrorism is whipped up by firebrand ideologues, not caused by actual events and people's experiences but that's purely a guess.


so tweaks radicalization is taught & tweaks i gave ya examples like all tha terrorists exported from saudi arabia that were radicalized by tha brotherhood not by war.

Just about all terrorists captured, and all the major terrorist organisations involved in international terrorism have claimed that their actions were inspired by Western military interventions in the ME, and that their goal was to bring about an end to Western military interventions in the ME.

Some including the Times Square bombers and now the Boston bombers have explicitly mentioned drone attacks. OBL cited the removal of US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia as one of his 3 primary demands. The perception that Islam is under attack from the Christian West is also frequently mentioned. Understandably, the Israel/Palestine conflict also gets frequent mention.* These claims are credible - it makes no sense to assert that terrorists would seek to hide their goals, rather they seek to advance those goals through terrorism.

So even though we have it from the terrorists themselves that their major motivations are political, it seems you are still clinging to the explanation that Islamist terrorism not politically motivated but instead is "taught" by extremist Islamist clerics.

Which leaves the rest of us wondering who is more credible - you, or the terrorists themselves?


*It defies logic to assert that Palestinian terrorism is inspired by Islamist extremist clerics and not the Occupation of Palestine.


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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/4/2013 3:55:26 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Nor do I have any idea what"[terrorism is] taught morre than as experienced" means. It might be that you are suggesting terrorism is whipped up by firebrand ideologues, not caused by actual events and people's experiences but that's purely a guess.

so tweaks radicalization is taught & tweaks i gave ya examples like all tha terrorists exported from saudi arabia that were radicalized by tha brotherhood not by war.

Just about all terrorists captured, and all the major terrorist organisations involved in international terrorism have claimed that their actions were inspired by Western military interventions in the ME, and that their goal was to bring about an end to Western military interventions in the ME.

so when ya cite tha US actions killing civilians in pakistan & afghanistan that was just hot air coz even tha existence of US military bases is offensive to these folks. thats tha ole excuse. muzlims kill miles more muzlim civilians than all other folks combined.

quote:


Some including the Times Square bombers and now the Boston bombers have explicitly mentioned drone attacks. OBL cited the removal of US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia as one of his 3 primary demands. The perception that Islam is under attack from the Christian West is also frequently mentioned. Understandably, the Israel/Palestine conflict also gets frequent mention.* These claims are credible - it makes no sense to assert that terrorists would seek to hide their goals, rather they seek to advance those goals through terrorism.

yup they mentioned tha drone attacks but it aint credible cept as secondary justifications coz like i said muslims kill waaay more muslim civilians than non muslims do. tha insurgents in afghanistan kill like somewhere round 80% of their own civilian folks deliberately unlike tha nato raids that r mostly accidental tho they can be heavy handed getting at terrorists.

tha real cauze is radical islamic teaching. tha mother taught her son to hate america & tha older son brought tha other one. tha mosque where they went in boston invited radical islamic speakers that were sent to prison for terrorism later.

even yr point bout tha whacky "perception" theyre under attack from tha christian west shows radical religious teaching.

quote:


So even though we have it from the terrorists themselves that their major motivations are political, it seems you are still clinging to the explanation that Islamist terrorism not politically motivated but instead is "taught" by extremist Islamist clerics.

Which leaves the rest of us wondering who is more credible - you, or the terrorists themselves?

lol tweaks i never said islamism wasnt political. its political but tha politics is at core religious. ya dont need to find me credible. plenty of analysts say tha same thing so tha question to you to answer is who do ya find credible: some independent analyst folks r terrorists trying tha best to justify tha most barbaric fucked up bloodthirsty acts to civilians?

quote:

It defies logic to assert that Palestinian terrorism is inspired by Islamist extremist clerics and not the Occupation of Palestine.

nah thats bs & i reckon ya know it wit hamas, islamic jihad & the pa too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 5/4/2013 4:21:28 AM >


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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/4/2013 4:12:40 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The perception that Islam is under attack from the Christian West is also frequently mentioned.
...
it seems you are still clinging to the explanation that Islamist terrorism is not politically motivated but instead is "taught" by extremist Islamist clerics.

You cannot have it both ways.

In any case terrorism is never legitimate; that includes the eugenetic bombing of civilians by the British during WWII.

I also want to point out that as far as I know that attacks by resistance fighters against the Germans during WWII were never directed at German civilians.




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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/4/2013 4:25:50 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

if it werent ya would have heard a major percentage of tha pakistani population is ok wit em. if ya want cites i can give.


quote:


1 side can be marginalised bud.

yr cite http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/you-say-pakistanis-all-hate-the-drone-war-prove-it/267447/

& heres another pakistani pro drone writer http://archives.dawn.com/archives/19917



Poor you, playing the marginalised victim card. There is certainly no lack of nuke em all posters on these boards.

You need to re-read your claim and then read your so called the cite. Your claim as quoted above, doesnt hold water.


< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 5/4/2013 4:27:56 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/4/2013 5:21:38 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Joined: 3/3/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
if it werent ya would have heard a major percentage of tha pakistani population is ok wit em. if ya want cites i can give.

quote:


1 side can be marginalised bud.

yr cite http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/you-say-pakistanis-all-hate-the-drone-war-prove-it/267447/

& heres another pakistani pro drone writer http://archives.dawn.com/archives/19917

Poor you, playing the marginalised victim card. There is certainly no lack of nuke em all posters on these boards.

You need to re-read your claim and then read your so called the cite. Your claim as quoted above, doesnt hold water.

lol where am i playing tha victim card? just said 1 side of tha debate was marginalized after some folks hadnt even heard tha claims.

whats wrong wit tha cite? it analyses pew poll results wit plenty of detail & shows it aint clear cut that pakistanis overall object strongly to tha drones.

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 5/4/2013 5:31:51 AM   
Politesub53


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Whats wrong with the cite is that it doesnt back up your claim. You know which, its the one in the above post.

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