quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I ask this question. Is letting the government at taxpayer expense expense arrange for a minister (whether ordained or not) of whatever denomination come into your local school and attempt to convert YOUR child to their religion against your wishes and without your knowledge not prohibiting your "Free exercise thereof"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I ask this question. Is letting the government at taxpayer expense expense arrange for a minister (whether ordained or not) of whatever denomination come into your local school and attempt to convert YOUR child to their religion against your wishes and without your knowledge not prohibiting your "Free exercise thereof"?

In that vein, teachers impart all sorts of shit one may not approve of. And PSS is at taxpayer expense.

You do hit the anti-religion buzz words, don't you. And to think, some people object to science over religion. But science is good and wholesome, not full of fairy tales and unicorns but theoretical multi-verses, dark energy and quantum stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Is there anydamnthing that is verifiable in the Old Testament? It seems the OT has exactly as much FACTUAL backing as your aforementioned unicorns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Could you, please, show me where "seperation of church and state" appears in our constitution?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause

I didn't see that phrase, anywhere. Sorry.

Here's a hint; Try: "Thomas Jefferson Letter to Rev ..."

You'll find the phrase in President Jefferson's correspondance with a New England Fundementalist minister but you won't find it in the constitution.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

quote:

Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

quote:

No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Your slight about "everyone understanding" aside, YOU don't seem to understand that you still haven't shown me the phrase: "Seperation of church and state" in the US Constitution.

Is that so difficult to find?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Your slight about "everyone understanding" aside, YOU don't seem to understand that you still haven't shown me the phrase: "Seperation of church and state" in the US Constitution.

Is that so difficult to find?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Could you, please, show me where "seperation of church and state" appears in our constitution?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

I found a link that works..

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States."


"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The modern concept of a wholly secular government is sometimes credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" in this context is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#The_First_Amendment

< Message edited by egern -- 4/27/2013 12:55:23 AM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Princess2086

I was reading some of the above posts, and I wanted to use my history degree.

Seperation of Church and State, does not mean a lack of religion in politics or the removal of religion from goverment backed programs ( ie. Schools, courthouses, afterschool programs, State Capital Buildings).

What Seperation of Church and State means is that no Federal Religion will be established, such as the Church of England. That no one will be denined the rights of an American Citizen because of his/her religion.

In 1789, when our consituion was written, it was illegal for a Catholic to hold a goverment job in England. The Sepetatists fled England in fear of imprisonment. Several of our states were established by people fleeing England because they did not believe in the right religion.

It was for thoses reasons we have Seperation of Church and State, not to keep ministers out of public schools.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

This is about as close to the correct answer as we're going to get.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Princess2086

I was reading some of the above posts, and I wanted to use my history degree.

Seperation of Church and State, does not mean a lack of religion in politics or the removal of religion from goverment backed programs ( ie. Schools, courthouses, afterschool programs, State Capital Buildings).

What Seperation of Church and State means is that no Federal Religion will be established, such as the Church of England. That no one will be denined the rights of an American Citizen because of his/her religion.

In 1789, when our consituion was written, it was illegal for a Catholic to hold a goverment job in England. The Sepetatists fled England in fear of imprisonment. Several of our states were established by people fleeing England because they did not believe in the right religion.

It was for thoses reasons we have Seperation of Church and State, not to keep ministers out of public schools.

It's pretty funny, watching the usual suspects try to contort and twist and put that phrase into the constitution when it isn't there, at all.

You can give me all the opinion articles from wikipedia that you want, telling us that that is the interpretation but the phrase DOES NOT EXIST IN THE US CONSTITUTION.

When you start giving me interpretations, you start going into "I wish this were the way it is" land. Yes, Jefferson interpretted the first amendment to be a "seperation of church and state" (when he was writing to a fundementalist minister that wanted Jefferson to get the state of {?}Massachusetts {?} to stop "harrassing" his particular sect).

Jefferson wrote that phrase as a way of saying: "The federal government is not going to get involved in a pissing contest between your religion and the state in which you live".

It is fun to watch the usual suspects try to convince themselves that they're right, even though the phrase is NOT in our constitution. It's also fun to see the passive-agressive behaviors that some need to employ. I have another candidate for oblivion, as a result.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Not too many people seem to be having the trouble understanding the Constitution that you are having... here, let's try one more time.

Art III sec 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Your slight about "everyone understanding" aside, YOU don't seem to understand that you still haven't shown me the phrase: "Seperation of church and state" in the US Constitution.

ARTICLE III, Section 2

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; — to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; — to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; — to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; — to Controversies between two or more States; — between a State and Citizens of another State [Modified by Amendment XI]; — between Citizens of different States; — between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Your slight about "everyone understanding" aside, YOU don't seem to understand that you still haven't shown me the phrase: "Seperation of church and state" in the US Constitution.
Is that so difficult to find?

Everyone here knows what a bright boy you are, DS. It a lead pipe cinch you can see what is in front of you.
No law can force you to profess a given faith.
No law can prevent you doing just that.
No law can exclude you from public office on account of your faith or your lack of faith.
That is separation of church and state. I know you can see that. If you have a point, make it.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

This is about as close to the correct answer as we're going to get.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Princess2086

I was reading some of the above posts, and I wanted to use my history degree.

Seperation of Church and State, does not mean a lack of religion in politics or the removal of religion from goverment backed programs ( ie. Schools, courthouses, afterschool programs, State Capital Buildings).

What Seperation of Church and State means is that no Federal Religion will be established, such as the Church of England. That no one will be denined the rights of an American Citizen because of his/her religion.

In 1789, when our consituion was written, it was illegal for a Catholic to hold a goverment job in England. The Sepetatists fled England in fear of imprisonment. Several of our states were established by people fleeing England because they did not believe in the right religion.

It was for thoses reasons we have Seperation of Church and State, not to keep ministers out of public schools.

It's pretty funny, watching the usual suspects try to contort and twist and put that phrase into the constitution when it isn't there, at all.

You can give me all the opinion articles from wikipedia that you want, telling us that that is the interpretation but the phrase DOES NOT EXIST IN THE US CONSTITUTION.

When you start giving me interpretations, you start going into "I wish this were the way it is" land. Yes, Jefferson interpretted the first amendment to be a "seperation of church and state" (when he was writing to a fundementalist minister that wanted Jefferson to get the state of {?}Massachusetts {?} to stop "harrassing" his particular sect).

Jefferson wrote that phrase as a way of saying: "The federal government is not going to get involved in a pissing contest between your religion and the state in which you live".

It is fun to watch the usual suspects try to convince themselves that they're right, even though the phrase is NOT in our constitution. It's also fun to see the passive-agressive behaviors that some need to employ. I have another candidate for oblivion, as a result.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Could you, please, show me where "seperation of church and state" appears in our constitution?



Peace and comfort,



Michael