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Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 9:29:52 PM

anewflower

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/29/2013
Status: offline

hello, I'm new to this website and have been given information from a Dom friend stating it is always a good idea to ask a perspective Dom for references. Is this true and if so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response?

Thank you for your time

Post #: 1

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 9:36:30 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I really don't understand the need for references. DS is no different from any other relationship. If you feel the need to check someone out, google is your friend. But do you, in a nilla relationship, ask their friends and family about your potential date before you go out? And really, unless they are major players and well known in dungeons and parties where will the references come from? I will tell you I know of at least one guy who had a few email accounts that provided his own references. Unless you know the person giving the reference it has no value.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 2

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 9:38:43 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anewflower
hello, I'm new to this website and have been given information from a Dom friend stating it is always a good idea to ask a perspective Dom for references. Is this true and if so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response?

Are you looking for a play partner in a dungeon, or are you looking for a hold-hands-in-the-park type of relationship? Context matters.

If you're shopping around for a particular experience, such as trying to find someone who is an expert rope top, or who is good at fire cupping, then references are absolutely the way to go, especially with the more dangerous edge play stuff, like fire. On the other hand, if you want a dominant boyfriend, then, honestly, a man willing to give you a ton of references might be a red flag. The women who have been in my life expected what we did to be private -- something personal between us. I would be betraying them if I told someone new their names, email addresses, phone numbers.

A good rule of thumb, though, is: "What kind of friends does this person have?" Are they all alcoholics or substance addicts, or are they all professionals who do volunteer work in the community? Either way, that says something about the man's character. Or does the man have no friends at all? Because that's usually a red flag.

Have you ever been in a healthy relationship with a man? Maybe you haven't. If not, it's never too late to start. If you have, though, how did you choose him? Use those skills to choose wisely again.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 3

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 10:06:17 PM

muhly22222

Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

it is always a good idea to ask a perspective Dom for references. Is this true and if so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response?

I don't think it's true in all cases. Like RedMagic said, in cases where you're looking for particular experiences, references could be crucial to you finding the right partner to play with you in a dungeon or at a party. But those aren't the types of relationships I'm looking for. The women I talk to are either looking for long-term relationships with a D/s dynamic, or they aren't right for me. In that situation, it's more about getting to know the character and personality of the prospective match, and references won't help a lot with that.

I don't really have anybody I would consider a reference as to my being dominant, or as to any skills I have, because I haven't been actively involved in the lifestyle. I haven't gone to munches or parties, so I haven't met those people who are able to provide such references.

With that being said...if the dom's reason for not giving you references when you ask for them is "I've never had a problem before," my first thought is that he actually has had problems before. I don't know if he has, but it sounds like a defensive answer, and it's not really all that logical.

_____________________________

I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 4

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 10:32:14 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anewflower

hello, I'm new to this website and have been given information from a Dom friend stating it is always a good idea to ask a perspective Dom for references. Is this true and if so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response?

Thank you for your time

I agree with the others, confindentiality requires he be able to keep his past partners identities private; most likely they don't want their names & contact info given out to strangers. Did your friend perhaps mean a BACKGROUND CHECK? Because that can be a good idea, even in a vanilla relationship.
The difference in BDSM is that this person will be tying you up probably at some point, and it's better to find out beforehand than AFTER you are hogtied and completely defenseless whether or not he's got a criminal history of abusive behavior.
Also, use all your safety steps, meet in public, take a friend with you initially, if you meet the guy alone do check-in calls to a friend at pre-agreed times, etc. If he's a proper Dominant he'll be pleased to see you taking intelligent steps to stay safe, instead of you being an idiot about personal safety. You don't need to be paranoid, just sensible.
As for references about SKILLS, fireplay, ropes etc., perhaps your friend meant it regarding the local community in general, especially if your potential Dom has hosted seminars or classes.

GOOD LUCK & PLAY SAFE!

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 5

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/29/2013 10:41:55 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

My immediate reaction to the question of references, is why does any adult need references before dating another human being? Go out in public, never be in private with him, until you feel safe, cared for, and protected in some small way by this other (boy, or girl).+

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
If you're shopping around for a particular experience, such as trying to find someone who is an expert rope top, or who is good at fire cupping, then references are absolutely the way to go, especially with the more dangerous edge play stuff, like fire.

Than I thought of play times, and situations where people may not know one another well enough, as RedMagic alluded to. Many people want to experience different sensations, and plays in public, or private, with only a safeword to supposedly protect them. References are very much necessary for playing with new peoples, and new partners, particularly in situations where harm can be done externally or internally, from severe impact play, or invasive procedures.

Take good care anewflower, and aproach your experiences slowly, with a patient partner. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 6

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 12:02:30 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

The first thing I thought is whether these people giving this advice ask for "dating resumes" from their prospective partners. Can you imagine calling up someone's ex and asking about their style of fucking? Talk about an "ick factor." I didn't think about the "play partner" aspect until RedMagic's post. I don't have involvement with play partners, so those things don't always cross my mind.

Honestly, OP, if you are looking for a relationship, then look the same way you looked in vanilla life. You talk, go out, get to know each other and let a relationship develop. You don't have sex (I assume) with someone until you are comfortable with them, so why would you be submissive to someone before you were comfortable with them?

Also, you state in your profile that you have been a dominant in the past. Did you provide references to everyone you engaged with? If you didn't (which based on your post is a logical conclusion), then why would that suddenly change when you switch sides?

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 7

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 12:42:18 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

Unless you know the person giving the reference it has no value.

Not everyone is public with this lifestyle, which makes the concept of providing and verifying references less than useful.

However, a BDSM relationship is like any other and the same basic rule of taking it slow until you know the person well, applies. I would further caution you to not enter into a Dom/sub relationship with someone you haven't met REAL TIME and gotten to know *very* well.

When a 'dom' is not willing to take this time and hold off on the dynamic until a foundation of trust has been built -- that's a red flag.

Best, CP

_____________________________

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 8

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 1:27:31 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Here's a word for the other side.

References aren't always based on a person's intimate relationships. If a person is involved in their local community, there's still a lot you can learn about them. Is the person known as a member of good standing? When they say they are going to pitch in and help at a community event, do they follow through? Are other members of the community going to tell you that the person is welcome in their homes at private events? Does the person have a good reputation for being a safe player, following dungeon rules, and abiding by the general code of conduct for the group? Are they involved in the group from an educational standpoint, either by attending the learning opportunities that the group holds or teaching in those areas that he's checking off that expert designation on his interest list? Often, other people will know about his past dynamics and how long they lasted and whether or not a good impression was made there.

One good thing about those of us who are active in the kink community. I can (and have) walked people into the munch/club and told them that they can choose anybody in attendance to go and chat for a while so they can ask anything they'd like about those areas where people in the community have seen regarding the areas above. I also keep a list of all of the presentations/demos that I've done in various locations so a person can verify that if they want to as well. In the days of FetLife, it's very easy to see who is actually running a particular organization without having to be concerned that I'm whipping up fake profiles just to give good references.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 9

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 1:38:06 AM

FrostedFlake

Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline

If you can get a reference, is that a good thing?

If you are talking about 'dating' then I don't think so. The traditional means of sizing up a person work just as well with kinky folks as with anyone else. Do you like him, trust him, want him? You pretty much have the answers you need. A reference would seem an odd thing in that situation.

If, on the other hand, you are thinking about something potentially dangerous, like for example suspension, then a reference might be a very nice thing to have, if it's from someone who is knowledgeable about both what it is you are asking about and knowledgeable about safety. Nothing quite spoils a scene like being dropped on your head. Assurances of competency are nice.

But, tricky thing is, are you competent to judge whether you are being handed good info, as distinct from nonsense? If not, you might accept nonsense as if it were good info. That can get you real hurt.

Example. I asked for a machine screw eye rated at a metric ton. Hardware guy asked if I was going to mount it on a 2 x 4 and expect to lift a ton. I said, no, I was using a thickwall steel box beam 2" square, bolted into my engine crane, to reach over a Thunderbird bumper and I would not be reaching past my cranes forward feet. We both then had the info we needed to be comfortable with the decisions being made.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 10

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 9:04:36 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

Unless you know the person giving the reference it has no value.

That's how I feel about it too. Why would I take a complete stranger's word over if someone is safe or not?

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 11

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 9:17:01 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anewflower

hello, I'm new to this website and have been given information from a Dom friend stating it is always a good idea to ask a perspective Dom for references. Is this true and if so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response?

Thank you for your time

I have a bunch of views on this:

1) References are easily faked. You're asking a bunch of people that you don't know about someone else you don't know. You don't even know if the people you're talking to are real.

2) The better option is to ask people that you know in the community, if they know of that person. While not always accurate, you can usually assume if you hear about something over and over again may be something there.

3) You're an adult. You shouldn't need references to have a relationship. Use your head and not your genitals to do your thinking and listen to your gut.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 12

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 10:26:13 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

All well and good but the problem with this is that not all people are active in the public arena. When I started running my group I was an unknown, the fact that I had engaged in private play for decades had no value. That I had been poked with needles, stitched up and laced meant nothing except to me and my partner. Being bound up and throat fucked meant nothing. Living as a slave meant noting. What made it ok was people meeting me, talking to me and finding out who I was as a person.
There are a lot of people out there who choose not to engage in public dungeons or parties, but still do this stuff, albeit many times off the cuff.. lol it was like living in the wild west.
How will those people provide references? How can they be verified?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I also keep a list of all of the presentations/demos that I've done in various locations so a person can verify that if they want to as well. In the days of FetLife, it's very easy to see who is actually running a particular organization without having to be concerned that I'm whipping up fake profiles just to give good references.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 13

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 10:31:22 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

True. I don't do the public scene at all, so references would not help.

Nor would I ask anyone for references.

My last choice in men was bad, so why would I believe someone else's choices?

I learned to be more cognizant of initial red flags where I ignored them in the past.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 14

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 11:07:22 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

One question..... Do think anyone is going to provide a reference list of people who will give them a Bad! Reference?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to anewflower)

Post #: 15

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 11:52:41 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
All well and good but the problem with this is that not all people are active in the public arena. When I started running my group I was an unknown, the fact that I had engaged in private play for decades had no value. That I had been poked with needles, stitched up and laced meant nothing except to me and my partner. Being bound up and throat fucked meant nothing. Living as a slave meant noting. What made it ok was people meeting me, talking to me and finding out who I was as a person.
There are a lot of people out there who choose not to engage in public dungeons or parties, but still do this stuff, albeit many times off the cuff.. lol it was like living in the wild west.
How will those people provide references? How can they be verified?

I agree with your point about those who don't. I am just sharing My perspective as someone who does. If a person *is* active in the community is also a possible option to the scenario. Since some folks aren't particularly comfortable talking with past partners, I was attempting to throw some things out there that could be helpful *if* a person is associated with their kink community in some way.

While I'm not saying that one is better than the other, (private or public) I am saying that this is an area where public might be easier. I've kind of got it made compared to somebody who just does wiitwd behind closed doors. I'm exceptionally easy to verify. I do think it's a benefit in My case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
One question..... Do think anyone is going to provide a reference list of people who will give them a Bad! Reference?

This is very much why I don't give 'people' references, per se. Instead, I'll give a person the information about the organization(s). The person that I'm dealing with can do their own fact checking through there.

If I could "fake" everything that's on My bio, I absolutely would be a Master manipulator. Probably at a much higher skill level than a few parlor tricks with a whip.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 16

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 1:52:16 PM

peope

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/17/2013
Status: offline

quote:

so if the Dom tells you no he is not going to give any for he has never had a problem how should someone new read this response

I think that is a bullshit reason.

If the reason was "no I respect the privacy of my previous partners".
Or even "it did not end well".
Or "no I do not play in the public scene".
Or "no I have not had a slave/submissive before".

How I reason here is that you are asking for references to see if this is a guy you can trust.
And he blows it away by saying you can trust him.

It might not be that a big a deal. You can overanalyze every little thing said and make someone the devil.
It still is a poor reason given.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 17

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 7:03:28 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Actually, for me, a guy who can give a list of 10 references is a turn off and a sign of incompatibility. This is a relationship for me, not a fwb thing. And therefore I'd much rather he not feel it appropriate for me to call his ex wife of 20 years for a reference.

If you're only playing with someone, then it's okay to want to know that he plays with others and those others who he has topped casually will vouch for his skills. Equally however, you had better be prepared to give him a list of tops who will vouch for you. Are you?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to peope)

Post #: 18

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 7:46:27 PM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

~FRing it~

Is this a relationship or a play situation? Not that it really makes a huge difference either way, but since Im a relationship oriented person myself...I'll answer from that standpoint.

I don't check or provide references for vanilla relationships. I don't do it for my BDSM connections either. Talk about awkward! I'll take my gut instincts and my own perceptions over the word of some stranger who I don't know from a hole in the ground any day of the week personally.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 19

RE: Asking for References for A Dom - 4/30/2013 7:52:48 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

What's more amusing to me? Not only has the OP vanished, but she states in her profile that while she is new at being a sub, she isn't new to the lifestyle. She apparently was a dominant for quite some time. WTF?

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 20

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