RE: LocknLoad March on Washington

RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 5:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I have considered potential threats on the street from humans as just another assortment of ill-bread dogs, and haven't had much trouble with either party since. Hah! Me too, with both dogs and humans. The knack is easy once you've got it, isn't it? [:)]

PeonForHer -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 5:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady This guy is looking to incite people and garner publicity for himself. Nothing more, nothing less. And a bunch of uneducated rednecks (yes, the educated rednecks will stay home to avoid problems) looking for a reason to shoot are going to show up. I think the march will turn into a frigging nightmare if it happens as stated, for what it's worth.

Edwynn -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 5:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I consider carrying a weapon in public as the ultimate expression of the fear of death. You'll note I'm not "packing". Guns aren't the issue for me. Collective infringement on the individual's liberties are. The downside to liberty, of course, is that when you allow people to make bad choices, some will do just that. IWYW, — Aswad. The civil and criminal legal system, the regulatory system, etc., all constitute 'collective infringement.' If you want to write a check, or have the check from your employer deposited with out question from the bank, or any number of other things, then 'collective infringement' is needed for the task.

Edwynn -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 5:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I have considered potential threats on the street from humans as just another assortment of ill-bread dogs, and haven't had much trouble with either party since. Hah! Me too, with both dogs and humans. The knack is easy once you've got it, isn't it? [:)] Yes it is. If I'd had that gun put to my face before my personal 'enlightenment,' I'd probably be gone by now. It freaks people out when your whole attitude (not your words) says: "go ahead, who cares." That's what I said to the dog who was about to chomp on my arm in that magic moment, just in my mind. She laid off immediately. As I indicated before, she was just doing her job. I can't believe how ignorant I was theretofore, and I can't thank that girl enough, today, for serving her masters and myself (for years beyond her life) all at the same time.

Aswad -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:00:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer It seems to me, as a Brit who has never had a fear of being shot, that so many Americans might go around so utterly accepting of a level of fear that they take it for granted. Freedom from fear is a lot better than freedom to carry a gun, I'd bet. But I do wonder if certain Americans, in certain areas of the USA particularly, have any idea at all of what I'm talking about when I say that. I have an idea what you're talking about, going by what I've heard from most Europeans that have moved there. And you will find it very difficult to explain the absence of something that's been so thoroughly taken for granted, so I don't think very many have any idea what you're talking about. If they did, most would probably agree with you. I, however, do not. I consider "freedom from" things to be a lower priority than "freedom to" things. Which is not to say I discount the former. Quite on the contrary, I enjoy and appreciate a lot of the "freedoms from" things that living here in Norway provides. It's just that I would rather have the latter than the former, which is definitely a minority position in any culture at any point in history. Also, despite a lack of any paranoia about governments, I do think a population would do well to retain the ability to revolt in the future, seeing as the option is a lot easier to keep while not needed, than to reclaim when needed. Of course, this perception may be somewhat colored by what happened during the occupation, and what the Labor Party did since then (persecution of political enemies up to the 90s via secret police, etc.) and still do on a smaller scale, but it's more a question of being humble about our ability to foresee the future than anything else, IMO. As for the guns themselves, my main interest is target shooting and hunting to curb wildlife starvation. IWYW, — Aswad.

Edwynn -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:08:27 PM)
"Escape From Freedom" Eric Fromm. So many years since I read that. I understand your position, agreed or not, in any case.

Aswad -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:14:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn The civil and criminal legal system, the regulatory system, etc., all constitute 'collective infringement.' I've never argued otherwise. quote: If you want to write a check, or have the check from your employer deposited with out question from the bank, or any number of other things, then 'collective infringement' is needed for the task. Uhm, no. There's a distinct difference between providing a service with terms (e.g. a financial system) and infringing on the person. BitCoin, for instance, supplies a very limited financial system as a service that has no impact on you if you're not participating. By contrast, in Norway, you have to pay a tax on anything valuable you own, such as a house, which is to be paid in currency that you can only obtain through regulated labor, which amounts to indenture (i.e. if you actually "own" a house, you must work to get money to pay tax to keep the house; you cannot live off the land, for instance). Arguably, some things are easier to provide with a measure of collective infringement, which is easier to swallow if the infringement is of a cooperative nature with respect for the value of what you're taking. When the gov't here decided to make it illegal for me to know some of the things I know, for instance, a law that soon enters into effect, I wasn't really amused, in part because it's none of their business what I know, in part because as a measure it's disporportionate to the intended goal, but foremost because it's something I cannot opt out of; under threat of violence and incarceration, I must cease to know something I do know, according to the upcoming laws. In the interest of keeping such infringements to a minimum, it's important to make the cost borne by individuals felt by legislators. Which is not to say I think this march is a good idea; I merely gave points for style, akin to points for audacity. IWYW, — Aswad.

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: So you would see no difference between me holding the weapon and a psychotic person or mass murderer holding the weapon? Perhaps. For sure if the psychotic person were wearing an identifying sign around his neck. They don't usually, however. What guarantee that there would not be any in the march? Unbelieveable. quote: Which is not to say I think this march will have too many solid people. Reason enough to stop it before it begins. stop using the general public as a testing ground for psychotropic drugs and you wont have too much to worry about.

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:25:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML People marching with loaded guns? Civilized conduct? I don't think so. government excepted?

Edwynn -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 6:52:18 PM)
BitCoin is a scam waiting to explode, just so you know. Pre-paid debit cards are noticeably more straightforward, even the worst of them. And your dollars or Krone or Euros are what hey are in the market, not as to the phenomenal gyrations of BitCoin. More for purely for speculative purpose than even normal currency FX, safe to say. But I hear what you say in other regards, hearing lately this same thing from Netherlanders and Denmark citizens on the pro audio site I visit. That is disturbing. Things becoming evermore Kafkaesque, as they relate it. But here in the US, we are on the other side of it. Millions of lost jobs and lost houses, due to a "let it all hang out" mentality regarding the financial industry and other sectors of business. Of course, Reagan's "government is not the solution, it is the problem" came to fruition under his handler's guidance, resulting in the US having the highest prison ratio-per-thousand of any country. But the situation is so different, the great disparity regarding the size of the nations in question, etc., I could never be able to conjure any good idea for the way to go in your country. But I hope you people have your voices heard, which is not possible in this country.

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 7:10:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Ahhh . . . there are too many photographs still in the minds of some of us geezers depicting armed columns marching into cities such as Paris and through Sweden to your country. People marching with loaded guns? Civilized conduct? I don't think so. Comparing American gun owners to Nazi soldiers huh? Projecting much?[:D] [:D] Nope. Just those stupid enough to march on the Capitol with em LockednLoaded. Oh? I do not recall anyone marching on the capital in germany LockednLoaded?

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 7:13:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Do you prefer that (to die) to happen as the freest man you can be, or kneeling as deeply as possible? I consider carrying a weapon in public as the ultimate expression of the fear of death. I'm not sure as to how that equates to expression of 'freedom' or not. The very act of 'packing,' as it's referred to in the US, constitutes 'taking a knee' from what I have discerned from those carrying. I want nothing to do with their fear. I've had the barrel pushed into my head (and face), too. We survive or we don't survive, my having a weapon on my person at the instance would have made no difference. My lack of fear saved me, and nothing else. states do it, parade their agents around, nations do it, parade their armies et al around, how is that different?

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 7:23:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I consider carrying a weapon in public as the ultimate expression of the fear of death. You'll note I'm not "packing". Guns aren't the issue for me. Collective infringement on the individual's liberties are. The downside to liberty, of course, is that when you allow people to make bad choices, some will do just that. IWYW, — Aswad. and there you have it. the real paranoia and fear are with those who are terrified of people who take the responsibility to protect their lives and liberty, and want to remove their fear by removing arms. they have acceptable losses for the tools of driving but not for the tools of self protection. each an individual choice, however when it comes to self protection the fear freaks want to impose their prohibition on the masses. hypocrites

vincentML -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 8:19:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Ahhh . . . there are too many photographs still in the minds of some of us geezers depicting armed columns marching into cities such as Paris and through Sweden to your country. People marching with loaded guns? Civilized conduct? I don't think so. Comparing American gun owners to Nazi soldiers huh? Projecting much?[:D] [:D] Nope. Just those stupid enough to march on the Capitol with em LockednLoaded. Oh? I do not recall anyone marching on the capital in germany LockednLoaded? I didn't say anything about marching on Gemany. Break your glasses, RO? [:D]

vincentML -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 8:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Do you prefer that (to die) to happen as the freest man you can be, or kneeling as deeply as possible? I consider carrying a weapon in public as the ultimate expression of the fear of death. I'm not sure as to how that equates to expression of 'freedom' or not. The very act of 'packing,' as it's referred to in the US, constitutes 'taking a knee' from what I have discerned from those carrying. I want nothing to do with their fear. I've had the barrel pushed into my head (and face), too. We survive or we don't survive, my having a weapon on my person at the instance would have made no difference. My lack of fear saved me, and nothing else. states do it, parade their agents around, nations do it, parade their armies et al around, how is that different? Well regulated militias. That's a BIG difference from the subject of this thread.

graceadieu -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 8:27:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu In DC, it's illegal for civilians to carry a gun in public. You can own one and keep it in your home or business for protection or take it to the range, but you can't go around with it on the street. Which is where the time-honored tradition of civil disobedience comes in. As a rule, civil disobedience is indeed illegal. IWYW, — Aswad. If they want to commit civil disobedience and go to jail to make a statement about broadening gun rights in a place they don't even live, they're free to do that. (Though I'm sure the people of DC would prefer they do it in the name of them getting a vote in Congress.) They just have to understand that they will be arrested, and not act like a baby and call it fascism.

Real0ne -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 8:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Ahhh . . . there are too many photographs still in the minds of some of us geezers depicting armed columns marching into cities such as Paris and through Sweden to your country. People marching with loaded guns? Civilized conduct? I don't think so. Comparing American gun owners to Nazi soldiers huh? Projecting much?[:D] [:D] Nope. Just those stupid enough to march on the Capitol with em LockednLoaded. Oh? I do not recall anyone marching on the capital in germany LockednLoaded? I didn't say anything about marching on Gemany. Break your glasses, RO? [:D] you made the nazi comparison, no one marched in germany. does that help?

vincentML -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 8:49:10 PM)
quote: you made the nazi comparison, no one marched in germany. does that help? Have a closer look. I wrote about marching into Paris, through Sweden, and into Norway. I said nothing about marching into Germany. I don't understand your problem.

vincentML -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 9:08:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Please do not mistake my 'lack of fear' as any statement that I might live longer that the average person as result. Oh no, that's not my point, Edwynn. My point is that being equipped to defend yourself - by virtue of martial arts training (per myself), or carrying a gun, doesn't actually reduce fear. It can't do - because you need the fear for the weapon (gun or fighting skills) to be of any use. Of course you do, because if you weren't afraid, you'd have no motivation to practise with your gun or fist or foot, thus be ready to go for it at the sudden right times, and so forth. You fight savagery by being savage yourself. That's how it works. And you can't be savage without being fearful. It makes no sense. Makes quite a lot of sense, Peon. Many of us, maybe most of us are not gun owners. We go about our daily lives sans paranoia. But real events do happen and are reported inexaustedly. Twenty school babies dead by gun. The Batman Movie spree killing. The Columbine High School slaughter. They are not figments of our imagination. Except in an odd way they become just part of reality shows on television. We don't really believe WE will get caught up in such. On the other hand there are many who own guns because they fear home invasion, a very unlikely event unless you are in the drug trade. So, the fear is pervasive but it is also oddly detached from real life. Not sure I am describing it well. Sorry.

LafayetteLady -> RE: LocknLoad March on Washington (5/10/2013 10:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady This guy is looking to incite people and garner publicity for himself. Nothing more, nothing less. And a bunch of uneducated rednecks (yes, the educated rednecks will stay home to avoid problems) looking for a reason to shoot are going to show up. I think the march will turn into a frigging nightmare if it happens as stated, for what it's worth. Could it be that we actually are in agreement on something? As I said, the man promoting this has done it in a way to intentionally appeal to the nutcases. I've no doubt in my mind that he wants those people to show up, and he wants someone to shoot off their guns.

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