RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation.....

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thishereboi -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 7:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Actually, what he's saying is that the statistics they have compiled indicate that the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants is lower than whites that are current citizens. He goes a bit further that that in his conclusion, where he flatly says that today's immigrants are "less intelligent" than native whites. He's not, after all, presenting his work as an interesting statistical finding but as an empirical fact that should become the basis for public policy. That's a key part of the context for reading it, I think. As DK pointed out, IQ tests are tied to culture--and language. I'm pretty sure I'd do less well taking any test in a second language (rusty high school French in my case) than in my native tongue. I don't know how or if Richwine addresses this point or if he factored it into his analysis. Good points. I would also like to know if he factored in prior education. One of the main reasons I hear for coming here is the education opportunities. Did the people he tested have any prior education? How do the schools there compare with the ones here? If you take a teenager who has never had a regular education and test him against a kid who has been in school all his life I would hope the second kid does better. If not we better take a good look at our school system. That does not prove that the first kid would not have done just as well if he had had the same opportunity.

DomKen -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 8:42:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Actually, what he's saying is that the statistics they have compiled indicate that the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants is lower than whites that are current citizens. He goes a bit further that that in his conclusion, where he flatly says that today's immigrants are "less intelligent" than native whites. He's not, after all, presenting his work as an interesting statistical finding but as an empirical fact that should become the basis for public policy. That's a key part of the context for reading it, I think. As DK pointed out, IQ tests are tied to culture--and language. I'm pretty sure I'd do less well taking any test in a second language (rusty high school French in my case) than in my native tongue. I don't know how or if Richwine addresses this point or if he factored it into his analysis. Good points. I would also like to know if he factored in prior education. One of the main reasons I hear for coming here is the education opportunities. Did the people he tested have any prior education? How do the schools there compare with the ones here? If you take a teenager who has never had a regular education and test him against a kid who has been in school all his life I would hope the second kid does better. If not we better take a good look at our school system. That does not prove that the first kid would not have done just as well if he had had the same opportunity. It's about 150 pages long and there is mch handwaving but he seems to ignore higher education in his tests. One primary test he uses is the ASVAB, Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, which is not an IQ test and is taken in high school (often only by those with an interest in enlisting in the military).

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 10:24:46 AM)
quote: I read the article. The OP makes the claim that the dissertation is bigoted, basing that allegation on the article. Nowhere in the article is there any proven bigotry. The article is about the biggoted disertation this fuckwad wrote. The author of the article gives a link to the bigotry. quote: What more needs to be read? The biggoted dissertation that we are discussing. quote: If Owner thought the dissertation was bigoted, why not post the dissertation? Links to the disertation have been posted.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 10:27:20 AM)
DS, as many have already stated "IQ" is not a fixed concept. It can be defined however one wants in order to prove whatever one wants. Let's point to another so called "IQ" type analysis and see if you feel any differently. In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Here is what they claimed in the book: the average IQ of African Americans was lowest, next Latinos, next Whites and highest IQ was for Asians. In other words, according to the book, Asian-Americans are smarter than whites. Do you believe Asians-Americans are, in fact, smarter than all whites? Just curious as to how much faith you really want to put into this construct of "IQ". Because, personally, I'm fine with using "IQ" as long as you admit that you are, in fact, stupider than my Asian-American self. And as long as you admit that all of your white descendants and all other white people will NEVER be as smart as me and my Asian-American descendants. [8D]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 10:49:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess DS, as many have already stated "IQ" is not a fixed concept. It can be defined however one wants in order to prove whatever one wants. Let's point to another so called "IQ" type analysis and see if you feel any differently. In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Here is what they claimed in the book: the average IQ of African Americans was lowest, next Latinos, next Whites and highest IQ was for Asians. In other words, according to the book, Asian-Americans are smarter than whites. Do you believe Asians-Americans are, in fact, smarter than all whites? Just curious as to how much faith you really want to put into this construct of "IQ". Actually, the dissertation makes the claim of the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants. Now, that is not the entirety of the Hispanic race, is it? quote: Because, personally, I'm fine with using "IQ" as long as you admit that you are, in fact, stupider than my Asian-American self. And as long as you admit that all of your white descendants and all other white people will NEVER be as smart as me and my Asian-American descendants. [8D] I have no problem stating that I might be stupider than you. I might not be, either. And, that isn't due solely to your or my races. American isn't really a race, either. My lineage is Italian and German. Lots of smart-as-fuck people in those two ethnicities, no? I have my own ideas on IQ and, having a high IQ doesn't lead to one being intelligent, nor does having a low IQ lead to one having a low intellect.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 10:58:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess DS, as many have already stated "IQ" is not a fixed concept. It can be defined however one wants in order to prove whatever one wants. Let's point to another so called "IQ" type analysis and see if you feel any differently. In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Here is what they claimed in the book: the average IQ of African Americans was lowest, next Latinos, next Whites and highest IQ was for Asians. In other words, according to the book, Asian-Americans are smarter than whites. Do you believe Asians-Americans are, in fact, smarter than all whites? Just curious as to how much faith you really want to put into this construct of "IQ". Actually, the dissertation makes the claim of the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants. Now, that is not the entirety of the Hispanic race, is it? quote: Because, personally, I'm fine with using "IQ" as long as you admit that you are, in fact, stupider than my Asian-American self. And as long as you admit that all of your white descendants and all other white people will NEVER be as smart as me and my Asian-American descendants. [8D] I have no problem stating that I might be stupider than you. I might not be, either. And, that isn't due solely to your or my races. American isn't really a race, either. My lineage is Italian and German. Lots of smart-as-fuck people in those two ethnicities, no? I have my own ideas on IQ and, having a high IQ doesn't lead to one being intelligent, nor does having a low IQ lead to one having a low intellect. I'm not talking about the dissertation - I'm talking about the book The Bell Curve which did look at Hispanic Americans NOT just immigrants. The results I state are from The Bell Curve. If you don't believe "IQ" is any measure of intelligence then why are you defending the findings in dissertation. You stated with respects to race and "IQ": quote: It's not being blamed on anything, DC. It's a statement of fact regarding the test subject group. That's it. Then, let's treat The Bell Curve, another study of test subjects and "IQ", as fact, too - in which case white Americans are stupider than Asian-Americans. I find it quite interesting that the moment the tables are turned you suddenly start spouting arguments about individuality and how IQ doesn't measure intelligence. So let me ask you this - WHAT is "IQ" measuring and why should we care? You seem to only want to place reliance on "IQ" when it serves your political agenda (and this is precisely why people are criticizing Richwine). You can't have it both ways.....

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 11:00:08 AM)
quote: Now, that is not the entirety of the Hispanic race, is it? Hispanic race?????[8\|]

MrRodgers -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 11:35:52 AM)
The whole concept is ridiculous. Try to emigrate to say China. Would the Chinese feel you had a lower IQ ? It's very possible since it's very likely you don't know the language very well at all ...reading or writing. I wonder what the IQ is of Hispanics who were born and educated in America...any ideas ? (BTW, the richest Mexican and at times the richest man in the world, achieved that status by owning a country-wide, telephone monopoly, with an only an IQ necessary to exploit it)

DomKen -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 11:42:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Sadly Richwine is quoted as speaking enthusiastically about "The Bell Curve"and its author ,including working for him and thanking him in his dissertation. http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/05/13/jason_richwine_and_the_r_word.html

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 11:49:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Sadly Richwine is quoted as speaking enthusiastically about "The Bell Curve"and its author ,including working for him and thanking him in his dissertation. http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/05/13/jason_richwine_and_the_r_word.html Omg two moronic fuckwads agree with one another ...whodathunkit???

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 12:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess In the book The Bell Curve, which was published in 1994 the authors claimed that IQ and race in America were linked. This book has largely been debunked at this point. Sadly Richwine is quoted as speaking enthusiastically about "The Bell Curve"and its author ,including working for him and thanking him in his dissertation. http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/05/13/jason_richwine_and_the_r_word.html Omg two moronic fuckwads agree with one another ...whodathunkit??? Yes, agreed. The point is, we've seen this crap before. Historically, and in the guise of "scientific" study. And conservatives who want to get on the whites are "smarter" than blacks/Hispanics bandwagon - that is fine, as long as you are willing to concede that Asians are "smarter" than whites. And unless we find enough white Americans willing to sign on to that, then I suggest conservatives leave this race/"IQ" stuff in the trash where it belongs. Either people need to accept ALL the findings on this issue or just leave it alone. This selective picking and choosing just to serve white interests is what is biased......[8D]

mnottertail -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 12:30:13 PM)
Now see here fucktoy, are you from eastern India? Let's settle that first. And you may be very well smarter than I, that is no massive trick.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 1:33:51 PM)
FR, A few posts were removed for various violations. If you did not receive gold mail and would like your content back to repost it, please write to me. Please do not make other posters the topic.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 4:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Now see here fucktoy, are you from eastern India? Let's settle that first. And you may be very well smarter than I, that is no massive trick. I am not sure what you mean by "from". I was born in the U.S. and part of my heritage is from India if that is what you mean. And just because I am of Asian background, I don't go around saying I'm smarter than everyone else even though there are studies that actually support that notion. I reject any and all attempts to link race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc. to broad based intelligence. And if someone is going to play that game - then respect the totality of the findings. Don't pick and choose. White conservatives need to get over themselves. Seriously. [&:]

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 4:41:14 PM)
p.s. Whenever white conservatives also fight against affirmative action, I also want to laugh. Asian Americans consistently score very high on the SAT. There is, at many colleges, admissions bias against Asian Americans because there are so many of them represented in certain colleges, and certain fields. So if whites want a level playing field, bring it on. In the new global economy where the Chinese and Indians far exceed our STEM skills, lets just see how far white conservatives will go with that strategy. For those who aren't sure....not very far. I remind everyone of John Rawls, the political theorist who posited that when we construct a society we should do so without regard to where we are situated. Just remember those on top may at some point be at the middle, or even the bottom. To assume permanent advantage when no such thing exists in history (witness the Romans) is HUGE folly. [sm=2cents.gif]

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 4:56:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess p.s. Whenever white conservatives also fight against affirmative action, I also want to laugh. Asian Americans consistently score very high on the SAT. There is, at many colleges, admissions bias against Asian Americans because there are so many of them represented in certain colleges, and certain fields. So if whites want a level playing field, bring it on. In the new global economy where the Chinese and Indians far exceed our STEM skills, lets just see how far white conservatives will go with that strategy. For those who aren't sure....not very far. There is a political comentator in l.a., pat morrison,who constantly refers to ucla as the "university of caucasians lost in a sea of asians" quote: I remind everyone of John Rawls, the political theorist who posited that when we construct a society we should do so without regard to where we are situated. Just remember those on top may at some point be at the middle, or even the bottom. To assume permanent advantage when no such thing exists in history (witness the Romans) is HUGE folly. [sm=2cents.gif] While the roman empire may be gone I would be curious to know how many romans have continued to prosper. While it is my considered opinion that all powerful families begin with a horse thief and a whore. Why do some last but a few generations and others more than a thousand years?

Politesub53 -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 4:59:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Actually, the dissertation makes the claim of the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants. Now, that is not the entirety of the Hispanic race, is it? Actually it is, if you are talking averages. Thats unless you are suggesting people only become stupid on arrival in the USA. quote: I have my own ideas on IQ and, having a high IQ doesn't lead to one being intelligent, nor does having a low IQ lead to one having a low intellect. Try running that past me again professor. Why do you think there is an "I" in IQ ?

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 5:04:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx While the roman empire may be gone I would be curious to know how many romans have continued to prosper. While it is my considered opinion that all powerful families begin with a horse thief and a whore. Why do some last but a few generations and others more than a thousand years? Yes, of course many Romans continued to do well - my point is that contemporary Italy with its economic woes is absolutely not Rome. I only mean that no matter how high in whatever hierarchy a society, group, or individual is, they should understand that nothing is permanent. A horse thief and a whore. Sounds like a good movie title, actually......

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 5:06:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Now see here fucktoy, are you from eastern India? Let's settle that first. And you may be very well smarter than I, that is no massive trick. I am not sure what you mean by "from". I was born in the U.S. and part of my heritage is from India if that is what you mean. And just because I am of Asian background, I don't go around saying I'm smarter than everyone else even though there are studies that actually support that notion. I reject any and all attempts to link race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc. to broad based intelligence. And if someone is going to play that game - then respect the totality of the findings. Don't pick and choose. White conservatives need to get over themselves. Seriously. [&:] This is a funny but true story: A few months I was at the youth hostel in las vegas(please, I do not need any heat about a man my age being in a youth hostel....it's cheap,clean and I don't need body armore to get to the parking lot) While eating my breakfast at the youth hostel I struck up a conversation with a woman of about 25 or 30 from russia who was here doing some research on her phd . She informed me that because the russian language is so difficult and complicated(if one reads doystoyefsky you know what she is talking about)that russians have become genetically smarter than everyone else in the whole world. Of course I just smiled and nodded my head in agreement[;)]sometimes it is downright disgusting what a man will do for little pussy.

thompsonx -> RE: Another Bigot Leaves Heritage Foundation..... (5/14/2013 5:14:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess A horse thief and a whore. Sounds like a good movie title, actually...... It has to do with the unique nature of the two crimes and the personalities of those who commit those crimes succesfully. Horse stealing was a capital offense because used to be only the aristocracy had horses so if you took one from them they kinda copped an attitude. Whoring for example in colonial virgnia could get you turned into an indentured slave for life...a fate that two of george washington's grandmothers escaped because they were rich enough to extort. their way out of the inditements.

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