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njlauren -> RE: UKistan. (5/19/2013 7:58:47 AM)
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I don't know about the UK, but the fastest growing religious group in the US is none of the above, people still feel spiritual, but they don't think any church/faith has all the answers. The problem with Christianity , at least the organized form, is it stopped meaning anything to people, primarily because they seemed to get caught in the past. Especially mainstream protestant and catholic churches, have gotten so caught up in dogmatic beliefs that they forget what it is all about. The conservative churches are so caught up with issues around gays and other doctrinal issues they forget about the people; the Catholic church is losing people in droves (used to be Catholics in the US went to mass more regularly than anyone, roughly 90%, today it is less than 50%, despite what the church claims), and among younger catholics it is even less. I live in an area where a lot of the people are nominally Catholic, and if they belong to church it is for the culture and community of what they knew as kids and wanting to pass it down, but the younger generations are not going, on top of being pissed off at the Catholic hierarchies abuses and sweeping abuse under the rug (I just read something about Ireland, other than the old people, few young people go to church, and the church is literally dying off there; 30 years ago the church had a 'special' relationship with the government, now, after finding out that the government colluded with the church in the horrific abuses done there, people don't trust either, and Ireland may be one of the next countries to pass same sex marriage, goodbye, Vatican).
In the US, the evangelicals, who were supposed to be 'taking over', have failed, their own membership is starting to decline (the Southern Baptists are seeing declining baptisms), and politically, the religious right is becoming a burden on the GOP,polls of people less than 50 show they are really, really unhappy about the unholy alliance.......so the evangelicals are not doing well either. I find it ironic that people are worried about Sharia law, when many of the same people are anti same sex marriage, anti gay rights and supported banning same sex marriage in the constitution, or believe religious law should be the basis for civic law...like, what is the difference?
The UK has a problem that so far the US hasn't for the most part, with some exceptions. I work with more then a few Muslims, people from Pakistan and India and the middle east, and one of the reasons the US hasn't had quite the problem is that other then some exceptions, like the two scumbags up in Boston, most Muslims come to the US to get away from the kind of crap they had in their own countries, they don't want Sharia law, they want what the US has, and they certainly don't want the Mullah's ruling anything. In England as in large parts of Europe, they have had large migrations of Muslims, but they haven't integrated into society, they are in the margins, and that is a problem, a big one. If you don't feel part of society, then you get angry, and this is when the fanatics get to you. Take a look at evangelicals/fundamentalists in the US, and what do you see? Mostly less well off, rural, and white, people feeling as they say time and again, like they are being ignored, their 'values' ignored, 'their jobs taken away', and blaming government and liberal society for them being marginalized (last I checked, 60% of Evangelicals had a high school degree, very few higher education). The problem isn't Islam or Sharia law, it is a society where those people feel outside of it, alienated, etc.
If the UK is worried about "sharia law" (and that fucking moron, Rowan Williams, who I have nothing but contempt for, ex Archbishop of Canturbury, and a gutless coward, didn't help, when he suggested UK law should adopt certain elements of "Sharia Law" to make Muslims feel comfortable..blah), then they should get around to amending their constitution and making it more formal, and incorporating things like freedom of speech and separation of church and state (which would finally, finally, get the COE out as the 'official church' and cut it off from influence in the government and with funding, too; you can't cry about "sharia law" and have an official church, of any kind), and oh, yeah, their stupid libel laws, the joke of the western countries.....
I actually think it is good young people are turning away from churches, going to church as a duty, as something you do, listening to sermons on Sunday you don't believe, hearing some celibate in robes telling you using birth control is a sin, you shouldn't look at your partner in lust, shouldn't have oral sex, shouldn't have anal sex, and if you are gay you are condemned to hell, just doesn't work, and quite frankly in past generations how many people really believed the crap they were being told? How many went to church because it wouldn't appear right to others if you didn't go?
I think the fact that more and more declare themselves as atheist or agnostic, or as "I believe, but no specific church" is the antidote to what you fear, because those people would fight tooth and nail against anyone trying to establish religious law; the biggest haters of the evangelicals in the US are the young, the very same people who are likely to be atheist, agnostic or "none of the above". One of the ironies is that so called 'people of faith', who go to church, are more likely to sit back and say about the extremists "you have to respect their beliefs"..I belonged to a very liberal episcopal church (that was as clueless as the conservatives ones are), and they spent a lot of time explainging the evangelicals, about why they are as they are, that you have to respect their beliefs, and so forth (it was basically the same crap we were fed about the Anglican Communion and not getting angry at the assholes in Africa all upset about a gay bishop and such, there we got the white guilt crap, how they were converted by Evangelical missionaries, they don't understand, etc...bullshit, it wasn't white colonialism, it was they are stupid bastards, to say the least).
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