quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

It may be that the officer used excessive force but there is nothing in the information provided that illustrates or even partially adds to that impression. As for the idea that a person armed with a knife could or should be effectively deterred by throwing a vase at them this speaks far more to your own prejudices destroying your ability to use critical thinking than it does to murderous intent on the behalf of police.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

There is no "them". There is a (probably) 20-something faced with a crazy acting man, who had to make a judgement call.

yeh shoot to kill first ask questions later.

How well would you do in the same situation.
I would have gotten both the guy and myself out alive
There is no government evil conspiracy,
now we know you are smoking, its even on paper and declassified, frankly have to be on da-nile cruise to look past it
or malicious individuals - there is one crazy man and one guy whose responsibility is to protect lives.
more smoking! If you think that is true do post their charter. I have yet to see ANY as in ZERO police charters through out the land of the free whose charter makes them liable to protect anything but the sovereign or the court and you are NOT on that list.
He made a judgement call, and now the Monday night quarter backs are coming out and saying how terrible this is, and why didn't he do this or this, or gee, this.
or how wonderful it is? The only one you can say for sure about that is yourself
Way to go guys. Lets support our boys in blue, who no-one respects until they need them, and then when they need them they murder you! anything to HELP! and gosh, then its "they did this wrong" or "why didn't they do this?"
Until you walk in their shoes, i don't think you can criticise these men and women. So you walk in their shoes? Seems you just impeached yourself several times. They are just like the rest of us - So you feel everyone is a psychopath? or that everyone woudl simply shoot the shit out of someone when there are a multitude of other solutions? they are trying to do their job the best they can. yeh shoot first ask questions later? So you are satisfied with bottom of the gene pool barrel performance? No-one gets up in the morning and thinks to themselves that today is the day they get to shoot someone. you speak for the world? I bet you are wrong. Mostly, they worry that they are going to have to draw their guns and worry wheither or not they can make the right call. those who are not psychopaths maybe.

There are bad cops - but mainly they are lazy, or willing to take a bribe, or a free cup of coffee - they aren't out there to kill everyone they can. Cripes, the average cop isn't a psychopath!


(gets off soapbox and quietly walks away)

Excellent post, but to anyone who is incapable of listening or seeing in anything other than extreme black and white, it probably won't make a difference.

The other articles said that family members were being threatened by him as well. I guess they should have sung him a lullaby....or told him to make love not knives.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
and dude, it isn't murder. Where is the malicious intent?

so killing for the fun of it is not murder in your opinion

This cop didn't know the man from the man in the moon. He perceived a threat and responded to it. He was doing his job for Petes sake.

perceived or escalated and more then likely created?

It amazed me the number of people who feel qualified to criticize ANY profession when they don't agree with the results, irregardless of how much they know about the situation.

well it appears to me you are simply apologizing for them

and as a wife of a cop, i would have been pissed if my hubby had died because he let some fella who was threatening people kill him. Insurance money doesn't replace a companion.

quote:

Cripes, the average cop isn't a psychopath!

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

what did I miss here?

I thought the cops were told he had a knife?

they could have thrown a vase or a chair at him for shit sake!

but instead they chose to murder him.

It should never happen, it happens all the time, in the land of the free, look on youtube its even caught on video!

The parole at large comment was in reply to your last link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

do you have any idea how easy it is to take a knife away from someone?

not to mention an obviously very sick man.

Ahh, read the other articles. That makes a big difference. The guy was making threats and tried to attack the officers. They could still have Tased him, but depending on the size of the room, there might not have been time or room.

Ummm, no where in the article did it say he was an obviously sick man. Even if he was mentally ill, which does seem likely, that doesn't make him physically ill. Taking a knife away from someone, without getting cut, isn't all that easy. This is especially true of someone with no concern for their own life.

shit they wear kevlar

according to his family he was fucked up as a result of improper medication, so you can justify this license to murder? a guy with a lousy knife????

Kevlar doesn't stop knives, or it only stops them as well as any other thick cloth would. Trauma plates would, but not every vest uses these. Actually most don't since they're too heavy and awkward. There are also quite a few vulnerabilities in a vest that are easier to exploit with a knife then a gun.

At close range, a "lousy knife" is often more effective then a gun. Knives are dangerous. It's pretty easy to kill someone with nothing but a "lousy knife".

I'm not trying to be insulting here, just asking a question. Do you have any training or experience with guns or knives? I happen to have training with both. The problem is, to someone who doesn't know better, if you hear that one person had a knife and the other a gun, then it's simple. The gun is so much more lethal that it's no contest, but that's not really accurate. It depends on so many factors; the relative skill of both individuals, the distance between them, etc.

What it's starting to seem like to me, is the guy committed suicide by cop. He already had cuts on his wrists when the police arrived, that sounds like hesitation cuts. When he realized he couldn't do it himself, he charged an armed police officer hoping that he'd be killed. Do I know this for a fact, no, but I think it's a reasonable conclusion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The Milwaukee police have tased alotta bros:

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/less-lethal/articles/91449-Police-Use-New-Tasers-Frequently-Stun-Guns-Subdue-105-People-in-First-4-Months/

Guess it wasn't deadly enough force for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

This is an example of why more departments need tasers. They work most of the time. Unfortunately those in certain parts of life advocated that they were cruel and unusual forcing police to rely on their firearms. Firearms are hammers and when all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail. Cops lost their knightsticks so they had to use asps which have less utility and are more dangerous. Cops lost their tasers and now they can only use their guns. Give cops back their knightsticks and tasers and this shit will happen less.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Just as an aside, the man was "obviously a sick man." That doesn't have to refer to physical illness. People can and often are "sick in the head."

You're correct, he was clearly mentally ill. However the implication of the poster saying that he was "an obviously sick man" was that this should make him easier to disarm. I was pointing out that he wasn't sick in a physical sense, or at least not as stated in any of the news articles, and that his mental illness would make him more difficult to disarm. So by that standard he wasn't "sick" in any way that would have effected the posters statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

For the information of the ill-informed and ignorant - cops aren't trained to disable - they are trained to kill. If they are in a situation to need to use their guns, they are in a lethal situation, and disabling isn't an option then. If a cop pulls his gun, he is of the opinion that there will need to be lethal force.


.....and Realone, perhaps you could show me where it is written that the cop was killing for the fun of it! You need to develope reading comprehension.

actually, Realone, don't even bother replying - based on past posts, you don't have the ability to reply cognisantly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

For the information of the ill-informed and ignorant - cops aren't trained to disable - they are trained to kill. If they are in a situation to need to use their guns, they are in a lethal situation, and disabling isn't an option then. If a cop pulls his gun, he is of the opinion that there will need to be lethal force.


.....and Realone, perhaps you could show me where it is written that the cop was killing for the fun of it! You need to develope reading comprehension.

actually, Realone, don't even bother replying - based on past posts, you don't have the ability to reply cognisantly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Just as an aside, the man was "obviously a sick man." That doesn't have to refer to physical illness. People can and often are "sick in the head."

You're correct, he was clearly mentally ill. However the implication of the poster saying that he was "an obviously sick man" was that this should make him easier to disarm. I was pointing out that he wasn't sick in a physical sense, or at least not as stated in any of the news articles, and that his mental illness would make him more difficult to disarm. So by that standard he wasn't "sick" in any way that would have effected the posters statement.

IMO, only a fool thinks the mentally ill or serious medicated are easier to disarm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

do you have any idea how easy it is to take a knife away from someone?

not to mention an obviously very sick man.

Ahh, read the other articles. That makes a big difference. The guy was making threats and tried to attack the officers. They could still have Tased him, but depending on the size of the room, there might not have been time or room.

Ummm, no where in the article did it say he was an obviously sick man. Even if he was mentally ill, which does seem likely, that doesn't make him physically ill. Taking a knife away from someone, without getting cut, isn't all that easy. This is especially true of someone with no concern for their own life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

do you have any idea how easy it is to take a knife away from someone?

not to mention an obviously very sick man.

Ahh, read the other articles. That makes a big difference. The guy was making threats and tried to attack the officers. They could still have Tased him, but depending on the size of the room, there might not have been time or room.

Ummm, no where in the article did it say he was an obviously sick man. Even if he was mentally ill, which does seem likely, that doesn't make him physically ill. Taking a knife away from someone, without getting cut, isn't all that easy. This is especially true of someone with no concern for their own life.

shit they wear kevlar

according to his family he was fucked up as a result of improper medication, so you can justify this license to murder? a guy with a lousy knife????

more psychopaths

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

this is my opinion, the cop screwed up big time, the article doesn't say if he shot the legs (to stop) or the chest (to kill), just that the man died by bleeding but he already cutted his wirsts so the man himself had a good part of responsibility. Some pointed out that the officer was a young guy in a risky situation to take a fast decision, but if he frightened and killed a man whose relatives (unarmed) controlled for the time between the call to police and their arrival without incidents, well maybe police is not the best career choice he could do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Kevlar provides very little protection against a knife.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

do you have any idea how easy it is to take a knife away from someone?

not to mention an obviously very sick man.

Ahh, read the other articles. That makes a big difference. The guy was making threats and tried to attack the officers. They could still have Tased him, but depending on the size of the room, there might not have been time or room.

Ummm, no where in the article did it say he was an obviously sick man. Even if he was mentally ill, which does seem likely, that doesn't make him physically ill. Taking a knife away from someone, without getting cut, isn't all that easy. This is especially true of someone with no concern for their own life.

If they were within 10 ft and he was threating deadly force they may have felt they had no choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

For the information of the ill-informed and ignorant - cops aren't trained to disable - they are trained to kill. If they are in a situation to need to use their guns, they are in a lethal situation, and disabling isn't an option then. If a cop pulls his gun, he is of the opinion that there will need to be lethal force.


.....and Realone, perhaps you could show me where it is written that the cop was killing for the fun of it! You need to develope reading comprehension.

actually, Realone, don't even bother replying - based on past posts, you don't have the ability to reply cognisantly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

For the information of the ill-informed and ignorant - cops aren't trained to disable - they are trained to kill. If they are in a situation to need to use their guns, they are in a lethal situation, and disabling isn't an option then. If a cop pulls his gun, he is of the opinion that there will need to be lethal force.


.....and Realone, perhaps you could show me where it is written that the cop was killing for the fun of it! You need to develope reading comprehension.

actually, Realone, don't even bother replying - based on past posts, you don't have the ability to reply cognisantly.

Surely you aren't just figuring this out now?