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What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 3:19:46 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Yet Another Public Disaster For The Cruise Industry

Last year, we had the Costa Concordia run aground. There was at least one other incident last year, but I can't think of it at the moment. This year, we had the engine room fire on the Triumph, another Carnival ship that had to send people home on a shortened cruise due to issues with the ship. Another Carnival ship was knocked loose while docked, presumably killing at least one, but I think it was two (they were never found). Now a fire on a Royal Caribbean ship. And of course, every year we read or hear on the news about several ships that have had to quarantine passengers for the Noro Virus, Including my cruise last year.

Are we just hearing about it more in the media or are there really a lot of incidents happening that weren't happening in the past?
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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 3:27:03 PM   
OsideGirl


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Status: offline 		It's happening more, but...

In the last 10 years the cruise business has boomed. (Keep in mind that pleasure cruising basically started in the 70s) Ships are being built at a faster rate and they're bigger than ever. Just like anything that grows too fast, the industry is having growing pains which includes ship technology and the staff.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 4:43:32 PM   
TNDommeK


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Status: offline 		I've noticed the same things. I'm a frequent cruiser (at least two a year) and I've kinda slowed down bc of the things that have been happening.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 5:54:25 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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Status: offline 		Actually (IMO) the problem is the ship owners' lack of willingness to take the ships out of service for proper maintenance. Think about it. What would as little as one week out of service cost them? Couple million? Add in the cost of the maintenance itself and it adds up fast. On a more realistic time line it is more likely that the ships would be out of service for up to a month on an annual basis.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 6:43:08 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The cause is actually in the bible.

Allow me to explain.

Did god tell Noah to put any kind of power plant on the Ark?

No.

Could God have given Noah the knowledge to fulfill all tasks needed to build a working diesel engine?

Yes.

Therefore it is a sin to place an artificial power source on ship....


Either that or the cruise ship operators are too worried about the damn things paying for themselves they dare not take them out of service for maintenance.

The wrath of God theory would make me feel better, since the second theory indicates that cruise ship operators dont give a fuck about the passengers... or they want the insurance to pay off on a lost ship...

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/28/2013 8:01:07 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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Status: offline 		I have decided I am never taking a cruise, ever. We can go to some great beach and get a very nice vacation without having to worry about being trapped in a broken down ship for days.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/29/2013 1:12:05 AM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Oside,

I agree the industry is booming, even after these recent incidents.

TDK,

I love cruising and wish I could go more. I wouldn't reduce how often I went if I could afford to go more though. I actually checked the pricing on the Costa line after it went aground, hoping to be able to find a good deal for my 32 cruise last year. I didn't find one though, but found a good deal on Princess. That cruise was the one that got hit with Noro Virus, lol.

MG2TR,

I agree, they don't want to take the ships "off line" for the time to do the maintenance. The schedule wouldn't be financial prohibitive though, it would just take one ship being out of service at a time.

Jeff,

Actually, the ships that have had these incidents (except for the Noro Virus *attacks*) are older ships that, considering the profit margins for each ship on any line, have already paid for themselves. Several times over.

Moonlight,

Yea, the being trapped thing would have sucked greatly. But I would have milked the shit out of a lawsuit against them and gotten free, upgraded cruises for life! Seriously.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 5/29/2013 1:16:13 AM >

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/29/2013 7:50:21 AM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		A lack of maintenance of the ships and the Noro virus is common on the ships. This happens a lot more than most people realize. I was saving for a simple cruise but I guess I will forgo the cruise and save up for Dragon*Con 2014. I need to see a few friends there anyway.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/29/2013 6:51:20 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		The Royal Caribbean one that was on fire left here from Baltimore. It's been making the front page here and there's an investigation going on here about it.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/29/2013 7:12:05 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

Actually (IMO) the problem is the ship owners' lack of willingness to take the ships out of service for proper maintenance. Think about it. What would as little as one week out of service cost them? Couple million? Add in the cost of the maintenance itself and it adds up fast. On a more realistic time line it is more likely that the ships would be out of service for up to a month on an annual basis.

considering its US taxpayers paying the bill for the cost of these rescues, why would they get all gung ho on maintenance?

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 1:39:44 AM   
LafayetteLady


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Status: offline 		They are only paying for the Triumph, which needed to be towed back. The RC ship was able to make it to dock on their own, The Concordia recovery is being privately funded to the best of my knowledge, but is also in Italian waters, and an Italian ship, so the US isn't paying for it (other than Carnival paying the lawsuit settlements).

Noro Virus actually doesn't occur only on ships, it's just that ships provide a closed system which causes it to spread more easily.

Oh, and Shar, take the cruise. You won't regret it. They are really worth it.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 4:51:15 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Actually if the crews were appropriately sized and trained all routine maintenance could be carried out underway. The problem is that the crew that doesn't deal with the passengers are generally very poorly trained and too few to actually do the job.

Until that is changed major mechanical failures are going to happen occasionally underway

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 6:11:38 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I used to work for a company that handled mooring ropes for cruse ships that came into Key West. Form what I have experienced, not adequately trained or enough personnel is an understatement. There might be more to it as well.

One of the RC ships that came into Key West had a few of the Filipino crew jump ship while it was in port.

Personally, I wouldnt take a cruise simply because the ships are not what I consider to be safely designed. Having a shallow draft to enable them to enter some of the "resort" city harbors and having very high free board and super structures make me nervous. A couple of cruise ships that came into key west had massive concrete filled additions to their hull below the water line to increase ballast, which made docking them dicy, they had to hit the dock just right or the gangway would not reach from the ship to the dock.

Some of the older cruise ships that came into Key West had to anchor out, and the company I worked for hired charter boats to bring the passengers into shore.

IMO if you want to spend any time at sea, just purchase a good long range cruising yacht. There are quite a few of the older classic designed yachts on the market for decent prices in good shape, and some that need some restoration work are down right cheap.

Then of course you can still purchase a Soviet Era surplus Tango class diesel electric sub at good prices, and even some of their surface ships are also for sale, complete with working weapons systems, to facilitate the ease of entering the Pirate business.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 8:33:46 AM   
cordeliasub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

Actually (IMO) the problem is the ship owners' lack of willingness to take the ships out of service for proper maintenance. Think about it. What would as little as one week out of service cost them? Couple million? Add in the cost of the maintenance itself and it adds up fast. On a more realistic time line it is more likely that the ships would be out of service for up to a month on an annual basis.



I agree with this as well, not to mention that some of these ships are just plain getting OLD. I get that they hate to retire one because of $$...but after a time....it's time to stop tempting fate.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 8:49:26 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub


I agree with this as well, not to mention that some of these ships are just plain getting OLD. I get that they hate to retire one because of $$...but after a time....it's time to stop tempting fate.


Not really. The oldest was the Carnival Elation built in 1998. The Carnival Dream was built in 2008. Carnival is still running the Ecstasy and the Fantasy (1991 and 1990), and they've been pretty problem free for the time they've been in the water.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Noro Virus actually doesn't occur only on ships, it's just that ships provide a closed system which causes it to spread more easily.
This is absolutely correct. We have received notification of Noro Virus outbreaks at large conventions or in hotels at times when areas are extremely full (ie: 4th of July in Las Vegas)

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 9:13:32 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

They are only paying for the Triumph, which needed to be towed back. The RC ship was able to make it to dock on their own, The Concordia recovery is being privately funded to the best of my knowledge, but is also in Italian waters, and an Italian ship, so the US isn't paying for it (other than Carnival paying the lawsuit settlements).


I am not just talking about the recent stuff/problems, I am talking about it over the years & for all the cruise lines, not just this one.. I dont know what they/carnival considers "serious" but 90 "incidents" over 5 years (serious enough to have to file with the coast guard).. hmmm.. but I am not really the cruizing-type.. a few hours out on the ocean is enough for me, I can't ever see doing anything more than that.. give me land! umm.. make that a nice sandy beach, with a floating air mattress.. oh,.. and one of those cold fruity drinks with those umbrellas..

"Rockefeller had asked Carnival for details about 90 incidents aboard its ships that were filed with the Coast Guard in the past five years. Carnival responded that 83 were not considered serious under federal regulations."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/13/carnival-no-reimbursement-to-us-for-disabled-ship/

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 11:43:39 AM   
LafayetteLady


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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		The article talked about 3 incidents that involved Coast Guard rescues.

Do you understand that EVERY incident must be reported to the Coast Guard? The article even pointed out that illnesses needed to be reported, as well as airlifting a sick passenger off the ship.

The cruise I went on, we had an outbreak of Noro Virus that needed to be reported (in fact the CDC had to come on board when we docked in the US), one passenger died, and another had to be airlifted off due to internal bleeding. All of these incidents needed to be reported to the Coast Guard (ok, I'm not sure about the Noro Virus, but that was reported to the CDC and apparently made the news). Yet, none of these were due to lack of maintenance on the ship.

It is actually quite common for passengers to die while on board. An interesting fact I found out from one of my table mates who cruises so often, she should really just live on the ship. Princess tends to attract a much older crowd, so sadly, it is not unusual for someone to die on a cruise pretty frequently on that line.

On the other hand, I do believe that Carnival should be making some repayment to the Coast Guard for the issues with the Triumph, and Splendor. But all ships DO also participate in rescues when necessary.

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 1:08:17 PM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		well, thats the thing, what is the definition of an "incident"? if i am on a cruise ship and I stub my toe trying to beat someone to the dessert buffet, is that an "incident"? In todays world, sometimes the definition of a word means something totally different to many people and its legal definition.. Right now I am trying to figure out what the legal definiton of the term "wrongfully fails" is..

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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 6:09:24 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

IMO if you want to spend any time at sea, just purchase a good long range cruising yacht. There are quite a few of the older classic designed yachts on the market for decent prices in good shape, and some that need some restoration work are down right cheap.



Yeah don't bet on that being a good idea. A good long range cruising yacht (even one that's not so luxurious) will cost a good deal of money. It will also cost a small fortune to fill the tank. They will typically hold anywhere from 8000 to 18000 gallons of fuel. At the dock the prices are higher too, so even conservatively at say $4.00/gallon that's $32,000 to $72,000 before you ever leave port. If you have half a brain you will also have a licensed captain to pilot your boat. On the low end they typically earn $100,000/yr. Then your captain will want a crew of at least two (another $60,000 to $100,000/yr) and you will need supplies too. In a nutshell, if you want to own a yacht you can expect to pay roughly a quarter million a year to own it and never go anywhere.


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RE: What The Hell Is Happening With The Cruise Industry? - 5/30/2013 6:37:45 PM   
TallullahHk


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Status: offline 		Cruising is how I envious hell. The idea of being stuck on a boat with hundreds and hundreds of people who, potentially, don't travel the way I do is enough to keep me off those boats.

This little lady is docked in the harbor right now and it's about the only cruise I'd be willing to take.

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