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New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 12:39:40 AM

lesbama65

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My girlfriend and I are relatively new to the bdsm lifestyle, although she is slightly more experienced than I. I need some advice on training her to be the sub I want her to be. She is very naturally inclined to submissiveness, but at times her "Irish" spark flares up. Any advice, specific OR general?

Post #: 1

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 12:48:37 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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That's a very broad question. Can you try and narrow it down to something a bit more specific?

What are you both hoping to get out of this? TPE? Bedroom only? Somewhere in between? Do you want high protocol? Will you micromanage? Do you expect her to take initiative and serve pro-actively or do you want her to not act without orders? Are you intending to set up a punishment dynamic? Exactly what problems is this 'Irish' streak causing?

And perhaps most importantly - do you both want the same thing? Are you in agreement of what the relationship should look like in the end?

Without knowing a lot more it's hard to give more than the generic advice; to start small, to communicate often and to be willing to change things to find what works for both of you, even if that isn't what you originally imagined.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 2

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 1:02:47 AM

lesbama65

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We have talked at length and we want the same thing in the end. We are going for an almost TPE with an expectation of her acting pro-actively. A punishment dynamic will be in place, yes. The "Irish" thing I referred to - she has a temper and mouth that she sometimes lets get the best of her. I have spoken with her and we both want that toned down.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 3

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 2:29:31 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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OK - and what have you tried so far to deal with it? Does she have any system to remind herself? Any anger-management techniques that she can use when she feels herself about to lose her temper? Any other outlet - a journal, a karate class etc - so she isn't holding it all in? Have your practised together ways she can approach you when something is making her angry?

It seems like in a situation like this saying 'don't lose your temper' and 'watch your mouth' won't be productive, since this is obviously a part of her personality and how she deals with conflict. So it's important that instead of just deciding what you don't want to happen, you figure out a viable alternative. Punishments alone are unlikely to work to change an ingrained habit. I don't know her, or how troublesome her temper is, or how much it happens before she can control it vs how much she consciously chooses to lash out, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

- Wear a piece of string or a bracelet round her wrist as a tangible reminder of what she's trying to achieve. She may need to change the item or it's location every few days so she doesn't get used to it or ignore it.
- Fidget toys, breathing exercises, counting to ten etc when she feels frustrated.
- An agreement that she can come to you with any complaints, concerns or worries. There WILL be a lot of these to start with, since it's natural that it takes a while to find your groove. She will be more able to keep her temper under control if she knows she will always have the chance to be heard.
- Keep a diary to see if there is a pattern. Are there certain frustrations which can be avoided altogether? Is it worse when her blood sugar is low? If you can find things that aggravate the problem and eliminate them, she won't have to fight so hard.
-An early warning system - a code word or gesture you can give her to let her know she is getting out of control, so that she can pull herself back in.
- Let her find a coping mechanism. If she needs to walk away for a few moments to keep control, allow her that. Temper has never been my problem but I have in the past had issues with becoming panicky and overly-emotional, and we found it helpful to agree that I can call a 'time out' at any point. Even if there is going to be a punishment, he allows me to call time out. I don't get out of whatever it was that upset me, but I can take five minutes to compose myself, and then face it more calmly. This greatly reduced conflict when I was struggling over giving over power.
- Some quiet time every day to focus on her goal. It might be journalling. It might be going for a run to mull things over. It might be putting on some soft music and visualising herself dealing with stressful situations in a calm way.
- Only working on one issue at once. If you're focusing on her temper, it might not be a good time to also make her stop biting her nails, change her diet, take an online course and add extra chores.

I guess what I am getting at is that you should set her up to succeed. Figure out how she works and then support her to make the change. There is a place for punishment if that's what works for the two of you, but in my opinion with something like this, punishment should not be for occasional slip ups, which are to be expected, but only for not trying.

I will also add, that for us, figuring out the punishment dynamic was one of the hardest things we had to work through. Expect it to take a lot of tweaking, and if it feels like it has more drawbacks than benefits, ditch it or change it.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 4

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 1:25:04 PM

DarkkInfinity

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If your training her to be the sub you want her to be I am uncertain as to what advice you require.

if you want a banal robot then merely condition that streak out of her though I cannot think of one good reason anyone should be doing this to anyone

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 5

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 1:41:27 PM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lesbama65

We have talked at length and we want the same thing in the end. We are going for an almost TPE with an expectation of her acting pro-actively. A punishment dynamic will be in place, yes. The "Irish" thing I referred to - she has a temper and mouth that she sometimes lets get the best of her. I have spoken with her and we both want that toned down.

A punishment dynamic most likely won't help control her temper or anger. You're punishing someone for having an emotion which will just breed resentment. A better approach would be putting a system in place to help her control her response to those emotions.

You also need to sit down and listen to her about what is causing her anger.

I agree with Athena, you should be setting her up to succeed. Punishing someone without looking at the cause of the situation is setting them up for failure.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/29/2013 1:45:53 PM >

_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 6

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 2:18:21 PM

SeekingTrinity

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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

Best place to start "training" (hate the word personally when it comes to showing a human being how to do things my way) your girlfriend to be the submissive you want her to be is...figure out what you personally want out of your submissive. AthenaSurrenders gave a good rundown as far as figuring out what kind of dynamic you are looking for, etc. There is no one true way when it comes to D/s. it's going to be the way you two mutually define things.

Punishment dynamics are highly personal. In my honest opinion, it's not really something you want to model on the advice of others who know neither you or your girlfriend.

On a more personal level, anger issues really don't have a lot of ethnicity to them. Take me, for example. I'm a combination of Italian, Spanish, and Irish...and I'm fucking sunshine and rainbows personality-wise. Don't believe me? Lemme kick your ass around the block a few times

. I kid, I kid

If we went with anger being ethnically driven, I'd be one pissed off bitch 99.999% of the time. You attempting to punish the anger out of her may likely blow up in your face. I would personally go with what OsideGirl suggested as far as figuring out the root of her anger. And no, her being Irish isn't the root of it.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 5/29/2013 2:20:20 PM >

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 7

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 6:06:10 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkkInfinity

If your training her to be the sub you want her to be I am uncertain as to what advice you require.

if you want a banal robot then merely condition that streak out of her though I cannot think of one good reason anyone should be doing this to anyone

Meh...I can.

Drama

Personally, if it were me, that whole "Irish" temper/attitude/mouth would cause me to show them the door.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Post #: 8

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 6:10:16 PM

muhly22222

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quote:

A punishment dynamic most likely won't help control her temper or anger. You're punishing someone for having an emotion which will just breed resentment. A better approach would be putting a system in place to help her control her response to those emotions.

Since you asked for ideas, I read about such a system, and have found it to be an interesting and helpful system for self-improvement in any number of areas. I'm certainly not going to claim credit for the idea, and it dates to the 1700s and Benjamin Franklin.

In his Autobiography (there are versions available online for free...that's where I read it, actually), Franklin discusses a system he used to improve himself in a number of different areas. He took a notebook, and divided each age into a graph, with 7 columns (representing the days of the week) and a number of rows equal to the number of vices he sought to eliminate from his life (I don't remember which ones he used anymore). At the end of each day, he would think back over the day, and put a mark in the box for each vice he committed that day. He would concentrate on eliminating one at a time until he was satisfied that he was sufficiently changed that he would be ok to focus on another vice. As the weeks piled up, according to Franklin, the number of dots in his book were drastically reduced.

There are plenty of other systems out there, but that is a classic.

_____________________________

I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 9

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 6:11:14 PM

sexyred1

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Me too. I am not Irish but have red hair and spirit. If someone wanted my spirit to be dampened, I would tell them to get a blow up doll.

I am not talking about someone with anger issues, I am talking about being a person who speaks up and has an opinion.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 10

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 6:46:59 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lesbama65

My girlfriend and I are relatively new to the bdsm lifestyle, although she is slightly more experienced than I. I need some advice on training her to be the sub I want her to be. She is very naturally inclined to submissiveness, but at times her "Irish" spark flares up. Any advice, specific OR general?

I cock an eyebrow at her.
Occasionally I'll make a comment.
If the train is really going off the tracks and over the cliff, I may even give her "The Look" (Patent Pending) but that's generally reserved for only the most dire of emergencies.

Nothing wrong with spirit, but there's a fine line between smartypants and sass. I let her know when she's getting close-it's only fair-even slaves deserve a warning flag :-)

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 11

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 7:16:55 PM

tazzygirl

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Meh... most men take my "spark" as a challenge. One day I might let them know thats the wrong way to take it.. but for now, its fun while they try and figure it out for themselves.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 12

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/29/2013 10:44:57 PM

lesbama65

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By saying "Irish", I wasn't trying to intentionally ethnicze the situation. That's just the term she and I use for it, since she is of Irish decent. We had a very long, productive discussion today, in which I addressed specifically my problems with things. She responded very very well, and layed out a framework from which to go by in the future. I am very happy that we have good communication with each other. We want to build each other up to be the best D/s we can be to each other, being positive towards each other. I only want punishment to be a last resort, but it be known that it will happen if need be.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 13

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/30/2013 12:09:13 AM

tazzygirl

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lol... this is going to sound funny.. but it worked. My ex, when I got into my lippy moods, used a code word.. Maude. If you dont know the reference, its a TV character. When I got mouthy, he would simply say.. "Ok Maude" and walk away. That was my cue to realize that I was out of control and he was no longer listening. No punishment. Just a simple statement of fact and left for me to work out how to improve communication with him.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 14

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/30/2013 12:48:17 AM

lesbama65

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I like that Tazzygirl. I do get the reference, saw the show as a child.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 15

RE: New to this..need advice - 5/30/2013 4:56:32 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

She is very naturally inclined to submissiveness, but at times her "Irish" spark flares up.

This could describe me. My temper flares when I'm feeling invalidated, or not listened to. This doesn't mean I expect to always (or often) get my way, but if he acknowledges that despite me wanting or feeling X, we are going to do Y, that validation of X, or knowing that I am being heard, prevents the temper spark.

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RE: New to this..need advice - 5/30/2013 5:34:59 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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How do you like your coffee? Has she learned how to make it for you?
Congratulations, she's been trained. If she forgot the milk did you beat her and scream at her for it or did you ask her to go add it? If the second, then you know how to train someone. If the first, you need therapy and anger management.

Really, it's no different than this. If she was violently allergic to the smell of coffee and became sick would you still insist she make it for you or would you tell her never to do so again?

You have to be able to teach her what you want, to explain it repeatedly until she gets it, and possibly to break it down into steps if it's entirely new to her. You have to give her a learning curve. Doesn't matter if you picked up calculus overnight, if she's not math minded and needed pre-calc and a tutor, that's what she needs.

You should give positive reinforcement, simple things like saying thank you and noticing that she went out of her way to do it for you.

With that said, there are things that you may like which she is violently opposed to. If so, then you folks get to decide if you're sufficiently compatible or not.

As far as her occasional bouts of temper, what causes them? Are you asking for things when she's under a huge amount of stress? Then stop being oblivious to the problems in her life and help her destress? Do they happen when she skips meals and hasn't eaten for 18 hours? Then put it in place that she needs to eat regularly, make her text you when she has breakfast and lunch and what it was?

Figure out the cause and then solve it or mitigate it as much as possible.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 17

RE: New to this..need advice - 6/2/2013 9:28:14 AM

lesbama65

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Very well put, DesFIP. That makes perfect sense to me, how you stated things. I appreciate that.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: New to this..need advice - 6/2/2013 9:37:48 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lesbama65
My girlfriend and I are relatively new to the bdsm lifestyle, although she is slightly more experienced than I. I need some advice on training her to be the sub I want her to be. She is very naturally inclined to submissiveness, but at times her "Irish" spark flares up. Any advice, specific OR general?

Sure... two options:

(a) Acknowledge that her "irish spark" is a part of her being irish and ignore it. We all have personality quirks.
(b) Acknowledge that her "irish spark" has nothing to do with her country of origin and everything to do with a lack of self-discipline and respect for others. Then deal with it on that basis.

I'd need to know more to know which path I was going to go with Carol. Humans are not unshaped lumps of clay. You work with what you have.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 19

RE: New to this..need advice - 6/2/2013 9:45:07 AM

SimplyMichael

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Here is where fantasy meets reality.

She is going to resent you for your failure to "control" her shitty behavior.

You are going to resent her failure to "truly" submit.

Punishment will fail...

The ONLY way to make this work is to see all this as an "US" problem not a "YOU" problem. In other words, work together to create a better relationship, dont see fault, which requires blame, which makes people defensive, which stops them learning.

When she goes irish on you, ask her why. See her side, understand it
and talk about it. Make her feel heard, understand it is in her nature. Reward her when she controls herself express mild dissapointment when she cant. Over the top punishment is counterproductive. Remove your mastery but not your love when she is out of hand. Mastery is a reward but love in.most cases must be cinstant.

Study her relationship with her parents and especially her father. Where he failed, you must excel, where he did well, you must copy.

(in reply to lesbama65)

Post #: 20

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