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RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 12:56:52 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

The Fed has been injecting EIGHTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH into the market to effect this artificial increase. So, in reality the stock market has been going up as a direct result of government meddling for some time. The gains you are so proud of are 100% fake. What you are seeing is professional traders feeding off of tax money being injected into the market. The only way that stocks continue to rise is if Bernanke continues to artificially bolster the market. If he does decide to taper the Feds contribution, the market will go down accordingly. If Bernanke cuts of all funding the market would crash.

No tax money is being fed into the system. The major federal reserve banks have accounts at the Federal Reserve. The Fed 'buys' bank member assets by transferring the assets to its own account thus removing the toxic shit from the banks' accounts. It is all done by digital accounting during which the Fed invents new money WITHIN the banking system. The member banks are then encouraged to use that digital money to make credit worthy loans and thus boost the economy. You are propogating a false story by saying tax money is being injected into the system. It is not. Also, technically, the Fed is not a government agency. It is part of a very private banking system, regulated by Congress. To be correct, the banks are of course public corporations owned by shareholders and fleeced by managers and board members.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/1/2013 1:24:15 PM >

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 3:10:04 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Obama Supporters Subsidize Romney Supporters With Their Taxes

-----

The Red/Blue Paradox
Why do liberal states give while conservative states take?


Why would voters in red states elect lawmakers who promise them small government when they benefit disproportionately from federal handouts? Why would voters in blue states elect lawmakers who support policies that redistribute their income to red states?

One possible explanation is that the voters are misinformed. According to this theory, the people who benefit the most from federal spending simply don’t understand how much money they receive; they assume their tax dollars are subsidizing others when in fact they are the ones being subsidized. People in rural states might be convinced that liberal urban Northeastern jurisdictions get large subsidies for entitlements, welfare, and industry bailouts, while failing to understand how much their own states benefit from agricultural and welfare spending.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 3:12:55 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Red/Blue divide:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 4:38:58 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Red/Blue divide:

Georgia; Carter.

California; Nixon, Reagan.

Which one(s) made the poor people poorer? (I'm not the Nixon-hater that some others are, I know where the real onus lies).

Which one made the poorest states poorer, and the richer ("blue") states richer? Where is Standard and Poors' home base? The ones who subverted Georgia law by making them retract the consumer protection law against loan sharking by refusing to rate the state bonds if not retracted?


Was it 'red' states or 'blue' states that wrought the financial destruction, making more of the poor more poor? Where is Manhattan located, by your geography?

You silly bitches, you wreak all this havoc, then complain about the inevitable and ineluctable result. And, true to form, slough the blame off elsewhere.

What slackards, no surprise here.

Got any Bill Mahr videos telling us how stupid southerners are? Not to worry, others here have piles of those, if you don't.

Thank goodness, most any of his videos tell any thinking audience what a bigoted dimwit he is, right off the bat. He's in your territory.

Sayonara, mr. blue-face.

And FU, while we're at it.









< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/1/2013 5:37:13 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 5:07:16 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The Fed has been injecting EIGHTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH into the market to effect this artificial increase. So, in reality the stock market has been going up as a direct result of government meddling for some time. The gains you are so proud of are 100% fake. What you are seeing is professional traders feeding off of tax money being injected into the market. The only way that stocks continue to rise is if Bernanke continues to artificially bolster the market. If he does decide to taper the Feds contribution, the market will go down accordingly. If Bernanke cuts of all funding the market would crash.

No tax money is being fed into the system. The major federal reserve banks have accounts at the Federal Reserve. The Fed 'buys' bank member assets by transferring the assets to its own account thus removing the toxic shit from the banks' accounts. It is all done by digital accounting during which the Fed invents new money WITHIN the banking system. The member banks are then encouraged to use that digital money to make credit worthy loans and thus boost the economy. You are propogating a false story by saying tax money is being injected into the system. It is not. Also, technically, the Fed is not a government agency. It is part of a very private banking system, regulated by Congress. To be correct, the banks are of course public corporations owned by shareholders and fleeced by managers and board members.



say wha????

I dont recall ever seeing a ticker for the fed res, whats the ticker I wanna short it!

the crime of the federal res system as opposed to the treasury is that they charge interest on money brought into the system and we have usufructory rather than ownership rights of time domain based value. they stole our money that appreciated in value and gave us shit on a stick money that worthless. That is robbery. Had the money we were using over the past 100 years gold or gold certs we would not be getting robbed because it was a dollar then and it is a dollar now and will be a dollar tomorrow and if we did not like the shit we could melt it down and sell jewlery, where as the shit we are stuck with is only good to light a fire and it does not even do that well. get my drift?


secondly all the stock market does is follow inflation. another no brainer.



[image]http://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2gQx9ZxPnrxtwF8yFdtIrYQc1vupekm5VI7gO_oW3LJ2jN_fB[/image]

pretty much flat while on gold standard and real ownership of money, now that its no longer recoverable



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/1/2013 5:08:07 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 5:30:45 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
Hey, thanks for pointing out the destruction of almost every farmer in the latter 19th century, thanks to the bond holders that you continuously suck up to.

I'm sure you didn't know that, I'm not counting on you to know that, but that's exactly what you are doing. I'm just pointing out to you who your real buddies are.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/1/2013 5:35:27 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 5:40:12 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I'm not sure how the home states of Presidential candidates has anything to do with tax revenue paradox between blue and red states.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/1/2013 5:41:51 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
Red/Blue divide:

Georgia; Carter. Arkansas; Clinton. Tennessee; Gore

Please not that I am not a major fan of any of the above, though I give Carter a great deal of credit for what he's done in later years.

California; Nixon, Reagan.

Which one(s) made the poor people poorer? (I'm not the Nixon-hater that some others are, I know where the real onus lies).

Which one made the poorest states poorer, and the richer ("blue") states richer? Where is Standard and Poors' home base? The ones who subverted Georgia law by making them retract the consumer protection law against loan sharking by refusing to rate the state bonds if not retracted?


Was it 'red' states or 'blue' states that wrought the financial destruction, making more of the poor more poor? Where is Manhattan located, by your geography?

You silly bitches, you wreak all this havoc, then complain about the inevitable and ineluctable result. And, true to form, slough the blame off elsewhere.

What slackards, no surprise here.

Got any Bill Mahr videos telling us how stupid southerners are? Not to worry, others here have piles of those, if you don't.

Thank goodness, most any of his videos tell any thinking audience what a bigoted dimwit he is, right off the bat (but obviously, not the bigots who stockpile such videos). He's in your territory.

Sayonara, mr. blue-face.

And FU, while we're at it.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/1/2013 5:47:09 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 6:17:26 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

the crime of the federal res system as opposed to the treasury is that they charge interest on money

Could be because the Treasury sells bonds, which are debt instruments, and upon which it pays interest because many government programs require TIME much like many homeowners require TIME for the purchase of a home. Without the bonds/mortgage the Treasury/homeowner would not be able to accomplish its/his ends in the near now shortrun. So, TIME is a commodity with a value.

quote:

if we did not like the shit we could melt it down and sell jewelry, where as the shit we are stuck with is only good to light a fire and it does not even do that well. get my drift?

Right, you could melt it down and sell it as jewelry. In exchange for what if there is no money to buy the jewlery?

quote:

secondly all the stock market does is follow inflation. another no brainer.

So, that's why they called the 1931 economy a Depression? Because the stock market was causing inflation?

Magical thinking by goldbuggers and ignorance of the history of bank runs with gold in the basement.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/2/2013 6:26:21 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 9:24:28 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		the real problem here is not only are we being charged for the provision of a means of exchange between ourselves which in itself should have a flat rate by the treasury, compared to now where EVERY transaction between people is taxed on every occurance (with a few exceptions of course), but also the profits from this arrangement were set up to be placed in the hands of a few, instead of going back to the people who paid the taxes!

and the people who collect the profits pay no taxes on the money.

so the common man again is left with the scrapings off the table.

its been known for a long time but no one will do anything about it until this country is a complete banana republic with tents and mansions and beyond the means or capacity to change it, and I get the impression its past that point already.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 9:58:52 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the crime of the federal res system as opposed to the treasury is that they charge interest on money

Could be because the Treasury sells bonds, which are debt instruments, and upon which it pays interest because many government programs require TIME much like many homeowners require TIME for the purchase of a home. Without the bonds/mortgage the Treasury/homeowner would not be able to accomplish its/his ends in the near now shortrun. So, TIME is a commodity with a value.

quote:

if we did not like the shit we could melt it down and sell jewelry, where as the shit we are stuck with is only good to light a fire and it does not even do that well. get my drift?

Right, you could melt it down and sell it as jewelry. In exchange for what if there is no money to buy the jewlery?

quote:

secondly all the stock market does is follow inflation. another no brainer.

So, that's why they called the 1931 economy a Depression? Because the stock market was causing inflation?

Magical thinking by goldbuggers and ignorance of the history of bank runs with gold in the basement.


I am too busy to address this right now, maybe someone else who understands this will set you straight on all those red herrings and koolaide you tossed out here. Otherwise it will have to wait till I get more time.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 11:43:54 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the crime of the federal res system as opposed to the treasury is that they charge interest on money

Could be because the Treasury sells bonds, which are debt instruments, and upon which it pays interest because many government programs require TIME much like many homeowners require TIME for the purchase of a home. Without the bonds/mortgage the Treasury/homeowner would not be able to accomplish its/his ends in the near now shortrun. So, TIME is a commodity with a value.

quote:

if we did not like the shit we could melt it down and sell jewelry, where as the shit we are stuck with is only good to light a fire and it does not even do that well. get my drift?

Right, you could melt it down and sell it as jewelry. In exchange for what if there is no money to buy the jewlery?

quote:

secondly all the stock market does is follow inflation. another no brainer.

So, that's why they called the 1931 economy a Depression? Because the stock market was causing inflation?

Magical thinking by goldbuggers and ignorance of the history of bank runs with gold in the basement.


I am too busy to address this right now, maybe someone else who understands this will set you straight on all those red herrings and koolaide you tossed out here. Otherwise it will have to wait till I get more time.


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 11:45:57 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Have a cup of kool-aid.

Just to reinterpret this... "The wealthy are thrilled with Obama's performance and, in general, the state of the economy."

If I were wealthy (and had no sense of morality) I would be delighted also.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 5:39:52 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I still don't follow the logic. The red/blue divide is about the paradoxical voting patters of the electorate, and it is not about the effectiveness or home states of elected Presidents.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/2/2013 5:40:39 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Dow Jones hits new high, closes above 15,000 for fi... - 6/2/2013 5:46:12 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
His point is more about how Republicans predicted a market crash under Obama policies.

I'm not rich, but my wife and I are very happy with our retirement accounts right now and our other smallish stock holdings.

With an improved economy, what will the Republicans try to bludgeon the Democrats with in 2014?

I still agree with your ongoing point that the wealth distribution pattern in the USA is damaging to our nation and the economy. A surging stock market does not rectify this problem, but it does help others outside of the 1%.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 75
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