Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Transplants and politics


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Transplants and politics Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 3:54:20 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Let the girl die. Let everybody who needs a transplant, die.

What about foreskin transplants?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 3:57:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
lol... sometimes I really love you, Moon!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 4:06:06 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I found it....

Burden and Cost of Care
 Hemodialysis is the treatment used in the
majority of dialysis cases and it costs
roughly $60,000 per patient per year.
 The one-time cost for a kidney transplant
is approximately $23,000, plus $6,000
per year for medication necessary.
Over a five-year period, a transplant is
approximately $250,000 less expensive
per patient than dialysis while improving
quality of life.


So you are now agreeing that money is an issue, retracting your earlier assertion that money never ought to be an issue?

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 4:07:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
There is a difference between my statement about money being an issue to get an organ and what that post was in response too. try and work that out for yourself. Let me know if you cant.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 7:49:27 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
I wonder how much longer these children will live if they do get lung transplants. Wouldn't the cystic fibrosis destroy the transplanted lungs too?

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/6/2013 7:55:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Once the person has received a lung transplant, does CF "go away"?

Transplanted lungs do not have CF because they come from people who do not have CF. However, after the transplant, the person still has CF in the sinuses, pancreas, intestines, sweat glands and reproductive tract.

The new lungs do not “get” CF, but immunosuppressive drugs may decrease the ability to fight germs like Pseudomonas aeruginosa (Pseudomonas) and Burkholderia cepacia complex (B. cepacia). These germs may stay in the upper airways after a transplant and can infect the new lungs. The risks of infection are highest right after the transplant operation. This is because immunosuppressive drugs are given at the highest doses right after the transplant so the body will not reject the new lungs. These drugs make it hard for the body to fight infections, and this can lead to lung infections.

http://www.cff.org/treatments/LungTransplantation/

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 9:41:12 AM   
Exidor


Posts: 135
Joined: 12/31/2011
Status: offline
Lungs are hard to match, and the tissue match must be *very* close for the transplant to work at all. No single anti-rejection drug works; the doctors shotgun an entire array, plus radiation or chemo to kill part of the body's immune system. Even then, the usual lifespan after a transplant is 5 to 7 years. The "quality of life" level pretty much sucks. A lot of recipients, knowing it will never get better, simply give up and die.

I watched a friend go through it. The anti-rejection drugs are, basically, poison, and one by one important organs failed due to the drugs.

A lung transplant isn't like a heart or kidney transplant; it's just a way to stretch out a few more years until you die anyway. And it's an ugly death.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 9:57:06 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

But then who decides the guidelines?


How are the people who heretofore made policy, and implemented policy, chosen?
Clearly, somebody has to play God.
Should said Gods not be selected by us, or at least by our representatives?
I cannot think of an answer that makes me comfortable.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 10:01:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
The only answer are those who are experts in the field.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 10:34:41 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
Experts whose expertise is evaluated by .... whom, exactly?
Other experts eminently qualified to select and evaluate them because other experts said they were qualified to do so?
Oversight and sunlight are good medicine for more institutions than simply the legislative branch of government

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 10:44:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Insinuating the transplant organization isnt transparent? It took me all of 1 search to find the organization, 2 minutes to find their by laws, another minute to find their policy on all their organ transplants.

Personally, I think the Judge way over reached here.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 10:54:53 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
He may well have.
I would like to think that the people who make these decisions are wise as Solomon, intelligent as hawking, and honest as Diogenes.
And, maybe they are .Certainly I have no reason not to respect them.
But they need oversight anyway. They are, after all, just playing God; and as such are still accountable to the law.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 11:03:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
What law have they broken?

You speak of accountability, and they have it. I would think it unconscionable to intentionally circumvent the rules for everyone in favor of one. If they had broken their policy, I agree, they should be held accountable. No policy was broken.

Do the policies need to be revisited from time to time? Yes. Seems this one was last updated in 2012.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 11:31:23 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
It seems this one was last revised by the judge- because, at least in his opinion, it failed to concur with the law.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 11:37:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Which is why he gave a temporary order until he could review it further.... uh huh. He ordered it out of sympathy for the little girl. Dont mistake that for the organization breaking their own policies.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 11:53:17 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
Don't mistake their adherence to their own policy as proof that the policy is non-discriminatory under the law.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 12:34:46 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
How Organ Allocation Policies Are Made

Organ matching and distribution policies are developed by committees and a board of directors comprised
of organ procurement and transplant professionals, patients, donor families, and the public. As the
transplant field continues to advance, organ allocation policies evolve. Goals are to make the best use of
every donated organ and give every transplant candidate a fair chance to receive the organ he or she
needs. Organ transplantation is unique in U.S. medicine because patients have a formal role in policy
making. The public can provide feedback on policy proposals by visiting http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov
(click on Policy Management>Public Comment). Call the UNOS patient services line at(number redacted for TOS) for more information.

http://www.unos.org/docs/WEPNTK.pdf

You may not like how the system is set up, but there is the system.

Here is the waiting list...

Waiting list candidates 118,312 as of today 3:10pm

Active waiting list candidates 75,643 as of today 3:10pm

Transplants January - March 2013 6,891 as of 06/07/2013

Donors January - March 2013 3,413 as of 06/07/2013

............

A letter from the transplant system to Seblius

Dear Secretary Sebelius:

We have received your communication through Dr. Mary Wakefield directing the OPTN to implement the order of Judge Baylson of June 5, 2013 and last night took the steps necessary to allow the OPTN computer system to consider this candidate alongside adolescent and adult candidates for allocation of adolescent and adult donor lungs. She also retains her existing priority status for lungs from pediatric donors.

In response to your request in your letter of May 31, 2013 requesting the OPTN to review OPTN lung allocation policy as soon as possible, and understanding the time-sensitive nature of this review, I have scheduled a meeting of the OPTN Executive Committee on Monday, June 10th. To inform that discussion, Thoracic committee leadership has already begun to review data regarding the outcomes of the current allocation system. On Monday, the Executive Committee will review OPTN data regarding pediatric lung transplantation, including waiting time, organ offers, organ transplants, and wait list mortality. The committee will hear from the Thoracic and Pediatric committees, and from representatives of the public.

If the available data suggest that a change to the lung allocation policy is warranted, the Executive Committee would be able to approve an interim policy change and expedited plan for implementation at that time. In addition to any action the Executive Committee may take on Monday, the OPTN will continue our thorough review of the pediatric lung allocation policy.

We will apprise you immediately of the results of the Executive Committee discussion.
Sincerely,

John P. Roberts, M.D.
President, OPTN Board of Directors


http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/ContentDocuments/OPTN_Letter_Secretary_06-06-2013.pdf

I would be curious to see what proof you have that discrimination has occurred. In my opinion, the transplant organization is one of the best run systems in the US. Its a bitch when you have x amount of organs and xx amount of patients waiting. It cant always be "first come, first serve" because they wont always match.

I received a transplant patient one night in Charleston. 18 years old kidney transplant patient. Her birthday. Three others were called before her. They are called in 30 minute increments to get to the hospital for testing. If you cant make it in 30, your name drops back on the list, at least there. The first two were not matches beyond the ABO, she was. We took her in a jello cup with a candle.. sang happy birthday to her, and we all had tears in our eyes.. what a wonderful gift to receive.

The organization is not a group of heartless bureaucrats with no desire to help. But they cant help everyone. Lines have to be drawn, decisions have to be made. I would love for the committee to redo their stances on under 12 year olds going on the lists with adults. However, there are many, many factors not many are considering.

For instance, CF children are often smaller for their age...

quote:

Growth delays often continue, and kids with cystic fibrosis tend to be significantly smaller than others their age.


http://www.chp.edu/CHP/cystic+fibrosis

The adult lungs have to fit into the child's body.

Q: Why don't they allow children under 12 to get adult lungs?

Caplan: "Adult lungs don't fit well in children's bodies and that makes it hard to transplant them. You are looking at using a piece of lung instead of a whole lung, and that makes it makes it a more difficult procedure and less likely to work.

"Lung transplants are a difficult operation, and they do fail. At three years after a lung transplant, about a third of the people who got them are dead. It doesn't work all that well compared to other kinds of transplants. That's partly because when you transplant lungs you have to give immunosuppressive medication so that they don't reject the lung. That opens up the lungs to infection. The lungs are constantly exposed to viruses and bacteria so infection is a huge problem with lung transplants."

Moreno: "Children tend to be too small to get adults lungs. Every time you give one person a lung or part of a lung, you aren't giving it somebody else."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/07/lung-transplant-girl-ethics/2397701/

Q: What can we learn from this case?

Caplan: "What you can do to help is make your organs available. There aren't enough. We need to be thinking about whether we have signed our organ donor cards, have we talked about being an organ donor with our loved ones.

"When we face these hard choices, we want to pay attention to what transplant experts say about who this is most likely to work for and not get into arguments about who is the most deserving person."

Moreno: "One good thing that might come out of this would be a review of the rules of lung transplants in kids. That will not satisfy these parents, and it will probably not come in time for these parents. The review needs to be done by people who understand medical and surgical and related technical problems for these patients."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/07/lung-transplant-girl-ethics/2397701/

If you are upset by the rules, then make a difference. Be an organ donor. Sign the cards, indicate it on your DL, tell your family. There are far too many waiting. There simply isnt enough organs.





_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 1:48:50 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In any case: I am opposed to all transplants.


Then I hope that you, if anyone, is the only person in your family who ever desperately needs one.
Karma is a bitch.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 1:52:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Karma is a bitch, I lost an aunt who was waiting for a liver.

Again, you (Rule) make massive assumptions about many people.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/10/2013 1:53:10 PM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Transplants and politics - 6/10/2013 1:56:29 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I would be curious to see what proof you have that discrimination has occurred.


That is obviously the legal hook upon which Judge Baylson is most likely to hang is legal hat, n'est ce pas?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Transplants and politics Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109