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I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/6/2013 9:27:05 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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How about a moment of silence for those men who died on this date, 1944.

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/6/2013 11:02:39 PM

stef

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I guess we all need a hobby.

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/6/2013 11:44:58 PM

Toysinbabeland

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 4:42:55 AM

DesideriScuri

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
How about a moment of silence for those men who died on this date, 1944.

I did so on FB.

My paternal Grandpa was in the 4th wave to land and fought his way up to the Battle of the Bulge where he was captured. He made it home, unlike many that landed before him.

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 5:10:38 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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I have three relatives who were in the first wave at Omaha, two from my mom's side, and one on my dad's side that are buried in the Normandy American Cemetery

Strangely, me and my cousins seem to have screwed up Family tradition. On both sides of the family, the military tradition goes back to before the revolution, and usually at least 3 end up dieing in each war they were in, this generation, we all managed to survive.

In ww2, there were relatives killed in both theaters of operation, Europe and the Pacific. Kinda exceeded our quota so to speak.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 5:16:53 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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Joined: 9/28/2011
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Hello, jlf,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
How about a moment of silence for those men who died on this date, 1944.

I do not want to hurt your feelings, but why on Earth did you expect someone to say this?

This is not a US-only forum, and what you mention happened 69 years ago. Will you expect someone to say it in 30 years? 100? Should I commemorate the German fallen in the battle of Friuli (1508) or the Chileans fallen in the Battle of Arica (1880)?

Have you seen *any* other person from *any* other country as yours, ever, commemorating in this forum any of the thousands of battles history has seen and the fallen from his/her country?

I mean - you want to do it. It's ok, and it's up to you, and I respect this. What I do not like is the suggestion (correct me if it is not there) that someone should have said it before you came up with the idea.

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 6/7/2013 5:22:58 AM >

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 5:33:51 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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You are right, this is not an American only forum.

Dday had brits, french, canadians, americans, poles and a number of other nationalities involved, and all those nationalities lost someone.

As for why to remember it, I dont know, maybe because it was the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)

Post #: 7

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 6:04:28 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You are right, this is not an American only forum.
Dday had brits, french, canadians, americans, poles and a number of other nationalities involved, and all those nationalities lost someone.
As for why to remember it, I dont know, maybe because it was the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany?

It was quite an impactful day for WW2, that's for sure.

Do other countries commemorate it as we tend to do in the US? I can see how Germany and Italy may not see it in the same light as we do here. Granted, almost 70 years later, I wonder what younger generation Germans and Italians think of Operation Overlord.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 8

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 6:32:06 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You are right, this is not an American only forum.
Dday had brits, french, canadians, americans, poles and a number of other nationalities involved, and all those nationalities lost someone.
As for why to remember it, I dont know, maybe because it was the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany?

It was quite an impactful day for WW2, that's for sure.

Do other countries commemorate it as we tend to do in the US? I can see how Germany and Italy may not see it in the same light as we do here. Granted, almost 70 years later, I wonder what younger generation Germans and Italians think of Operation Overlord.

I am not sure how the other countries remember it.

And I was not just thinking of the allies, I was thinking of the German dead too, many of those troops were not Nazi's and I doubt they had a choice about joining the military.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 9

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 7:13:28 AM

DesideriScuri

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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Would love to hear how citizens of other countries view Operation Overlord.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 10

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 7:20:58 AM

crazyml

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Joined: 7/3/2007
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I think most Brits view it as a good thing.

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 7:47:59 AM

freedomdwarf1

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Joined: 10/23/2012
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FR~

I find the whole idea of "remembering" the dead quite bizarrely off-putting.
And yes, I have family members who died in both world wars.

My grandmother died whilst in the land army doing her bit for king and country (victim of a doodlebug bomb).
Yet she is not mentioned on any war memorial that I know of.
My grandfather survived the D-Day evacuation.
He has a grave, my grandmother doesn't. Go figure.

None of us in our family has ever made a point of visiting graves or memorials - we think it's morbid.
The feelings are in the heart, not in some piece of carved stone or plaque.
That's how we view it.
We don't ever buy poppies either.
That's a tradition we find somewhat strange.
And we also do not stop and observe the silence that so many do.

So, not all Brits, and almost certainly not many on the 'losing side' observe such bizarre traditions.

We have always said in our family -
"Do not mourn me and never put anything living next to the dead. Always look to the future, never the past".
So all of our family funerals have never had flowers and no things planted where the ashes are scattered.
And as far as I know, nobody has ever visited a family grave or the site of scattered ashes either.

Maybe we are just weird. lol.

And I have never heard of 'Operation Overlord' so have no clue as to what it was about.
And no, I don't want to know either.

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 9:06:43 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I was thinking of the German dead too, many of those troops were not Nazi's and I doubt they had a choice about joining the military

I think you are spot on with that one...

my grandpa never got over it, that he was forced to join the army aged 17 nor over his experiences during the years of war, which (in mums and my opinion) led to him to dying as an alcoholic in the end.

I'm glad he and his brother survived those years, and that his mum survived both wars, but he became very difficult to handle, once brother and I reached that age, with his continious verbal attacks towards us, that he had to go to war in our age...

In regards to the topic in general I'm pretty lousy on history dates due to too many times changing school and not caring about history 20 years ago, so I would not have been able to come up with a topic like this anyway...

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 6/7/2013 9:07:35 AM >

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 9:12:16 AM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You are right, this is not an American only forum.

Dday had brits, french, canadians, americans, poles and a number of other nationalities involved, and all those nationalities lost someone.

As for why to remember it, I dont know, maybe because it was the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany?

Well, I remembered it yesterday. I didn't post about it here, but perhaps I should have. It's an important historical event which should be remembered.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 14

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 9:31:18 AM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How about a moment of silence for those men who died on this date, 1944.

fr

and lets cheer the people who made it all possible.

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Post #: 15

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 10:33:24 AM

DesideriScuri

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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
FR~
I find the whole idea of "remembering" the dead quite bizarrely off-putting.
And yes, I have family members who died in both world wars.

I can only say for myself, but the idea of remembering the dead isn't as much for the dead, as what they died for. The invasion at Normandy was the start of the final chapter. Germany had already started to lose the war, and storming the beaches at Normandy by sheer numbers was extremely important. Those people died for a free Europe (and free world, by extension).

quote:

My grandmother died whilst in the land army doing her bit for king and country (victim of a doodlebug bomb).
Yet she is not mentioned on any war memorial that I know of.
My grandfather survived the D-Day evacuation.
He has a grave, my grandmother doesn't. Go figure.
None of us in our family has ever made a point of visiting graves or memorials - we think it's morbid.
The feelings are in the heart, not in some piece of carved stone or plaque.
That's how we view it.
We don't ever buy poppies either.
That's a tradition we find somewhat strange.
And we also do not stop and observe the silence that so many do.

Remembering, for some of us, is a reminder of what others have sacrificed and done to provide what we enjoy today. It can help ground some back into reality. I don't think I've had any family members, even extending beyond the 1st level, that has died in a war. I was lucky to know all 4 of my grandparents and one great grandparent (none of my other great grandparents were alive at the time of my birth), and appreciate what they did to help the war efforts. Three of my grandparents and my great grandmother (the only one I knew) had active participation in the war effort, with both of my grandfathers seeing combat. Even though I didn't lose any family members on 6 Jun 1944, I remember the sacrifices made that day.

quote:

So, not all Brits, and almost certainly not many on the 'losing side' observe such bizarre traditions.
We have always said in our family -
"Do not mourn me and never put anything living next to the dead. Always look to the future, never the past".
So all of our family funerals have never had flowers and no things planted where the ashes are scattered.
And as far as I know, nobody has ever visited a family grave or the site of scattered ashes either.
Maybe we are just weird. lol.
And I have never heard of 'Operation Overlord' so have no clue as to what it was about.
And no, I don't want to know either.

You know what Operation Overlord is, but, apparently not by that name. Operation Overlord was the...

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 16

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 11:46:46 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Hello, jlf,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
How about a moment of silence for those men who died on this date, 1944.

I do not want to hurt your feelings, but why on Earth did you expect someone to say this?

This is not a US-only forum, and what you mention happened 69 years ago. Will you expect someone to say it in 30 years? 100? Should I commemorate the German fallen in the battle of Friuli (1508) or the Chileans fallen in the Battle of Arica (1880)?

Have you seen *any* other person from *any* other country as yours, ever, commemorating in this forum any of the thousands of battles history has seen and the fallen from his/her country?

I mean - you want to do it. It's ok, and it's up to you, and I respect this. What I do not like is the suggestion (correct me if it is not there) that someone should have said it before you came up with the idea.

Best regards.

There is the minor detail of it freeing Europe from the Nazis, the fact that not only Americans landed there, little things like that. And don't tell me about the Russians, I know about their contribution but they insisted they needed the "second front"

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RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 12:20:18 PM

SpanishMatMaster

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Dday had brits, french, canadians, americans, poles and a number of other nationalities involved, and all those nationalities lost someone.

Sure. And hast also nationalities which did *not* loose someone, or for which the WW2 was not really that much important at all.
And nationalities which have many *other* things they could celebrate instead.
And people who which simply decide to celebrate in a different way as a virtual minute in an internet forum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As for why to remember it, I dont know, maybe because it was the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany?

Do not change the subject, it is not about "remember", it is about commemorate exactly in the way that you want to commemorate it.

And no, it is disputable that it was "the beginning of the end of Nazi Germany", many other people (for example Russians, who lost much more people in that war as the USA) would put the point more on Stalingrad.

So, again ( and I will explain this only one last time because you do not seem to want to understand): You are trying to impose your criteria, your arbitrary decisions and views, in an forum with many people who simply do not share them.

You can commemorate all you want, and nobody here is against you opening this thread. But saying that you EXPECTED OTHERS to follow YOUR view on this subject was arrogant and unfounded.

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 6/7/2013 12:25:36 PM >

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

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Post #: 18

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 12:29:04 PM

SpanishMatMaster

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
There is the minor detail of it freeing Europe from the Nazis, the fact that not only Americans landed there, little things like that. And don't tell me about the Russians, I know about their contribution but they insisted they needed the "second front"

There are the major details that the D-Day was not the same as "freeing Europe from the Nazis", the fact that many other nations did NOT land there or where on the other side.

Besides the other major points I already stated: The time passed (the liberation from the Huns does not count?), the different ways different people have to commemorate, etc.

So yes. Minor details trying to impose their view and attitude against major issues.

Better everyone does what he wants but doe not pretend that the rest must do the same.

Best regards.

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 19

RE: I have waited all day for someone to say... - 6/7/2013 12:35:08 PM

SpanishMatMaster

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Would love to hear how citizens of other countries view Operation Overlord.

As for me, it was an important operation in the war, comparable to the Siege of Stalingrad, a bit more important that the Battle of Kursk and Pearl Harbour, less important that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima or the invasion of France by the Nazis. Of course you cannot understand the military development of the WWII without it, it is a major milestone.
And the WWII is one of the wars which has shaped the geopolitics of the world as it is today. One of. The many. Ones. Geopolitics.

To put another example: The discovery of America (12th October) by the Europeans is for me a much more important date. For good and for bad. More decisive in history, definitely. Another important date for me is the 28th of September, discovery of the penicillin.

That's my, personal, view. Which I do not "wait" that "somebody" has to share.

Best regards.

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 20

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