NSA Prism program (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 10:20:41 AM)

Here is one that was passed on to me.. and since so many are convinced liberals cannot post anything that might shed Obama in a bad light...........

Here I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.

Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

Im not posting the whole article, but I do encourage people to read it.

So, while I know this could be possible, in theory, whats the probability? Are companies like Apple and Google just that lacking in knowledge about their own programs that they wouldnt have noticed this? Or are they lying?

If this is happening, what benefits for the government do you see in this course of action?



Lucylastic -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:06:28 AM)

I wanna know who leaked it to the guardian:)



tazzygirl -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:21:12 AM)

I wanna see the presentation. Maybe then I would have a clearer understanding of how they are mining for information. Imagine all those applications... the hours it would take on facebook alone to pan for information (like gold). Its a massive undertaking.



papassion -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:28:45 AM)

While checking my stocks, saw a DOW headline that silicon valley companies claim they did NOT know their internet content was being monitored by the feds. true? false? If the government did surveillance without informing the monitored companies, this is some serious shit that has to be fixed NOW!



tj444 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:31:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If this is happening, what benefits for the government do you see in this course of action?

what benefits for the govt? maybe the only true benefit is only creating a few jobs.. [8|]
(I like this Quartz site, its got some interesting and more varied articles that I have not seen elsewhere..)

"Simple math shows why the NSA’s Facebook spying is a fool’s errand
A biologist who specializes in statistics has calculated that when the NSA’s alleged broad dragnet of Facebook, Google and other sites turns up a potential terrorist, there’s only a 1 in 10,102 chance that he or she is an actual terrorist. And that’s using very conservative estimates for the accuracy of the NSA’s terrorist-identifying software used in its PRISM spying program, which means that US spies could be reading the contents of hundreds of thousands of Facebook, Gmail, Skype and Apple iMessage accounts in order to find a needle in a haystack."
"But what if the NSA’s algorithm is less accurate than 99%? And what if terrorists aren’t as fond of Facebook and Gmail as the NSA would like? Plugging less charitable numbers into the equation easily yields results that are far worse than Chivers’ estimate, suggesting that analysts might be confronted with 100,000 false positives for every real terrorist."

http://qz.com/#92207/simple-math-shows-why-the-nsas-facebook-spying-is-a-fools-errand/



tazzygirl -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:32:10 AM)

Im having trouble with that. I can see smaller companies not knowing. But the giants.... they hire people to look for these back doors. Some have been around since 2007.. and their guys didnt find them???



tazzygirl -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:34:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If this is happening, what benefits for the government do you see in this course of action?

what benefits for the govt? maybe the only true benefit is only creating a few jobs.. [8|]
(I like this Quartz site, its got some interesting and more varied articles that I have not seen elsewhere..)

"Simple math shows why the NSA’s Facebook spying is a fool’s errand
A biologist who specializes in statistics has calculated that when the NSA’s alleged broad dragnet of Facebook, Google and other sites turns up a potential terrorist, there’s only a 1 in 10,102 chance that he or she is an actual terrorist. And that’s using very conservative estimates for the accuracy of the NSA’s terrorist-identifying software used in its PRISM spying program, which means that US spies could be reading the contents of hundreds of thousands of Facebook, Gmail, Skype and Apple iMessage accounts in order to find a needle in a haystack."
"But what if the NSA’s algorithm is less accurate than 99%? And what if terrorists aren’t as fond of Facebook and Gmail as the NSA would like? Plugging less charitable numbers into the equation easily yields results that are far worse than Chivers’ estimate, suggesting that analysts might be confronted with 100,000 false positives for every real terrorist."

http://qz.com/#92207/simple-math-shows-why-the-nsas-facebook-spying-is-a-fools-errand/


Thats sorta something else I am questioning, how do they filter all that information to find what they are looking for? Thats a lot of stuff.



mnottertail -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:35:24 AM)

Those V chips things any number of things that could spoof the guys watching packets.....somewhere there is alot of government infrastructure built into devices.



tj444 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:37:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im having trouble with that. I can see smaller companies not knowing. But the giants.... they hire people to look for these back doors. Some have been around since 2007.. and their guys didnt find them???

take a look at the chart on this page, it shows what these corps do and where/how they throw people under the bus..

https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013



tazzygirl -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 11:43:34 AM)

Thank god (or whoever) I dont have any secrets to pass around.



tj444 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 12:07:37 PM)

maybe not but Gmail & yahoo email now scan emails to send everyone ads based on words in their emails.. I find that very offensive.. i really hate that google now owns youtube.. [:o]

and google keeps everyones internet searches & tries to analyze it, i expect to find ways to make more money.. I was reading an article on Big Data and google in one experiment was using everyones searches to correlate searches for certain words related to having the flu and areas where flu outbreaks occured.. except these stuff is a prediction that may or may not actually happen.. Part of the article was on the govts FAST (Future Attribute Screening Technology) program that they want to use at airports and such.. except it doesnt work well cuz people can be under stress for a variety of reasons when travelling, etc.. The shite govt comes up with is scary..

"The system measures pulse rate, skin temperature, breathing, facial expression, body movement, pupil dilation, and other "psycho physiological/behavioral patterns" to stop "unknown terrorists". The technology would mostly be used at airports, borders, and special events"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Attribute_Screening_Technology



JeffBC -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 1:39:38 PM)

I'll try to ask about this. I'm still trying to setup some more secure communication links to ask these questions more easily but with any luck I can get some solid info on prism.

Insofar as benefits... are you kidding? The benefits of "total surveillance" for the state are incalculable. Total surveillance equates to total control.

There is zero (or near zero) chance this was done without the corporations' knowledge. What makes you think that's how it happened?



JeffBC -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 1:40:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats sorta something else I am questioning, how do they filter all that information to find what they are looking for? Thats a lot of stuff.

Uh... they spend billions of your money to build massive data centers to hold it all and crunch all the data.

edited to add
So that they can bring the war on terror to their own citizenry using the citizen's own money. It's a neat racket actually.



JeffBC -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 1:46:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thank god (or whoever) I dont have any secrets to pass around.

I do. Note that I "need to setup some more secure communication channels" in order to even ASK about this. Why is that? Why should two US citizens be frightened to talk about public knowledge published on the internet? And in this case it isn't me who is frightened. It's my expert who is WAY more knowledgeable and way more of an insider than myself.

So we are now in a situation where knowledgeable people do not think they can entertain normal conversations about public knowledge regarding the doings of their own government. In general you'll find the more expert someone is in this the more they think that's true.



tj444 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 2:55:02 PM)

not only that, but over time it becomes more and more intrusive and all encompassing.. I knew about carnivoire many years ago but that program would just search for certain key words in online communication, etc.. but this Prism just saves all email "forever" and they can apparently go back 10 years.. oh what a field day the IRS (or any taxing authority) could have with access to all those communications where income was earned (such as contractor's bids to homeowners) or something was sold but not reported.. [&:]

And of course, there are those shite disturbers and OWSers that the govt/FBI monitors.. I expect those online communications were part of that monitoring..

makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside, dont it? [:'(]



DaddySatyr -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 3:02:25 PM)

Jeff, does the name: "M. William Cooper" mean anything to you?



vincentML -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 3:07:11 PM)

~FR

I posted this on the NSA/Verison thread and I will post it here again for emphasis:

Not . . one . . citizen . . . . . NOT ONE CITIZEN has stepped forward to show how they were inconvenienced, embarrassed or harmed by this program. However, a number of citizens were inconvenienced when they were unable to take the elevator down from the high floors of the Twin Trade Towers and had to exit by window instead. I would prefer the inconvenience of having my phone calls in a meta data base. The rest is all conspiracy theorists hyperventilating.

That goes for my emails as well. Anyone who thinks his/her emails are not available in perpetuity is fooling themselves.



DaddySatyr -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 3:32:56 PM)

If they were bad ideas, then, why are they good ideas, now?



Owner59 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 3:40:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'll try to ask about this. I'm still trying to setup some more secure communication links to ask these questions more easily but with any luck I can get some solid info on prism.

Insofar as benefits... are you kidding? The benefits of "total surveillance" for the state are incalculable. Total surveillance equates to total control.

There is zero (or near zero) chance this was done without the corporations' knowledge. What makes you think that's how it happened?



It`s not total surveillance, the only calls/emails that get looked at are ones containing key words. If you`re not doing crimes, there`s no need to be worried.....those that are worried about what they say, maybe should be.

I`m still trying to figure out why this is news.

This is old news.



tj444 -> RE: NSA Prism program (6/7/2013 3:54:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR

I posted this on the NSA/Verison thread and I will post it here again for emphasis:

Not . . one . . citizen . . . . . NOT ONE CITIZEN has stepped forward to show how they were inconvenienced, embarrassed or harmed by this program. However, a number of citizens were inconvenienced when they were unable to take the elevator down from the high floors of the Twin Trade Towers and had to exit by window instead. I would prefer the inconvenience of having my phone calls in a meta data base. The rest is all conspiracy theorists hyperventilating.

That goes for my emails as well. Anyone who thinks his/her emails are not available in perpetuity is fooling themselves.

well, first off, this program has only been leaked 2 days ago by an NSA whistleblower (who obviously felt very strongly about the public's right to know what their govt is doing).. so its a bit early to have citizens step forward if they were kept in the dark about the details of the surveillance on them & their organizations.. take OWS for instance.. they were described as "domestic Terrorists" & that their right to protest and free speech which was lawful, peaceful was described by the FBI as "domestic terrorism".. they were closely monitored by the FBI & DHS (who reported back to banksters, wall street and Big Biz at taxpayers cost, no less) and all communications the FBI could get their grubby lil hands on (meaning online communications) would be included.. So I strongly disagree with your assertion that no citizens were "inconvenienced, embarrassed or harmed" by this program.. now the FBI & govt are calling food activists (those against Monsanto & Big Ag, etc) as "terrorists".. Your govt considers that if you act on your supposed right to free speech (against the interests of Big Biz or govt), that you are a terrorist committing a terrorist act.. Can you not understand why people would be upset about that?



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