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RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 3:31:16 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Would you agree that the law that exonerated this man given these facts needs to be changed?

A witness told police Gilbert paid for a specific amount of time with Frago and got angry as she left before they had sex, according to a police report. She got into a car, and when Gilbert was told he would not be getting his money back he fired into the car,


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 3:32:00 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

When I pro-subbed, clients often wondered about sex. They didn't get it, nor did they get their money back (not that they ever asked for it back.)


But, I'd be willing to bet that you were pretty good at communicating before a session what was on and what was not on the "menu" so to speak?


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 3:34:56 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Would you agree that the law that exonerated this man given these facts needs to be changed?

A witness told police Gilbert paid for a specific amount of time with Frago and got angry as she left before they had sex, according to a police report. She got into a car, and when Gilbert was told he would not be getting his money back he fired into the car,



Yes.

Would you agree that the law that exonerated a person given these (ypothetical) facts needs to be changed?

"The shop keeper saw the young man reach over into the till and take $150 dollars and run out of the door, he called after the young man to tell him to stop and return the money, when the young man didn't respond, the shopkeeper shot him"


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 3:38:21 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Again, it was changed in 1985 by the US Supreme Court. Deadly force against any American citizen, anywhere in the country, is not authorized over mere petty theft. If the police can't shoot you in the back, neither can the shopkeeper.... or the john.

The fact that Texas kept it on the books is no more convincing than if they kept runaway slave laws on the books.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Would you agree that the law that exonerated this man given these facts needs to be changed?

A witness told police Gilbert paid for a specific amount of time with Frago and got angry as she left before they had sex, according to a police report. She got into a car, and when Gilbert was told he would not be getting his money back he fired into the car,



Yes.

Would you agree that the law that exonerated a person given these (ypothetical) facts needs to be changed?

"The shop keeper saw the young man reach over into the till and take $150 dollars and run out of the door, he called after the young man to tell him to stop and return the money, when the young man didn't respond, the shopkeeper shot him"




< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 6/7/2013 3:39:42 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 3:44:53 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Again, it was changed in 1985 by the US Supreme Court. Deadly force against any American citizen, anywhere in the country, is not authorized over mere petty theft. If the police can't shoot you in the back, neither can the shopkeeper.... or the john.

The fact that Texas kept it on the books is no more convincing than if they kept runaway slave laws on the books.



I'm not familiar enough with US law to unravel this - but if you're saying that the US supreme court has ruled this kind of act unlawful, then I'm sure that the is a case for some kind of appeal or retrial?


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 4:17:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Would you agree that the law that exonerated this man given these facts needs to be changed?

A witness told police Gilbert paid for a specific amount of time with Frago and got angry as she left before they had sex, according to a police report. She got into a car, and when Gilbert was told he would not be getting his money back he fired into the car,



Yes.

Would you agree that the law that exonerated a person given these (ypothetical) facts needs to be changed?

"The shop keeper saw the young man reach over into the till and take $150 dollars and run out of the door, he called after the young man to tell him to stop and return the money, when the young man didn't respond, the shopkeeper shot him"


Yes. Taking property without violence does not call for a lethal response.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 4:24:38 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

"During closing arguments Tuesday, Gilbert's defense team conceded the shooting did occur but said the intent wasn't to kill."

Please tell me this is actually copy from THE ONION.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:01:39 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Here's a little contract law.

A contract may be oral as in (I'll pay you $30 to mow my yard) and it is enforceable.

She may have thought there was a contract. "If you give me $150, I'll do sex acts"
Unfortunately, a contract must concern something legal. If you want me to sign a contract for "X" that is not a valid contract. This is where BDSM/slave so-called contracts run into a problem.

Now back to the problem.
Legally, there was no contract. She accepted $150 and bailed. She even broke the nonbinding contract. This makes her a thief.
In the eyes of the law, she is no better than a mugger, shoplifter or common thief.
She was a criminal.

She died.

Tough shit.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/7/2013 5:02:05 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:04:14 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy



"During closing arguments Tuesday, Gilbert's defense team conceded the shooting did occur but said the intent wasn't to kill."

Please tell me this is actually copy from THE ONION.



It doesn't matter. She was a thief. She was a common criminal. She died

Tough shit.

I hate to get into speculation but as she was on craigslist soliciting business, how many other people had she done this to who were afraid to complain?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:10:55 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Interesting how many posters here on a website devoted to letting strangers tie you up and use whips and knives etc. on you are boasting that they think it's OK to kill someone in a situation like that as long as its for a 'good reason'... like $150 dollars.

Please move that over to your profiles, won't you?

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:14:09 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Interesting how many posters here on a website devoted to letting strangers tie you up and use whips and knives etc. on you are boasting that they think it's OK to kill someone in a situation like that as long as its for a 'good reason'... like $150 dollars.

Please move that over to your profiles, won't you?

Who said anything about playing with strangers on this side?

The other side is full of wank fodder boyz, duckfacemiddlefingerfindoms and noobs.

Let's stay on this side

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:14:15 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		There is nothing to unravel. I'm not saying this, the US Supreme Court made it definitive in the 2 rulings I cited.

What I'm saying is that there is a group of regressive politicians and supporters who want to pretend that the federal government has no power over equal rights, and that states can revert to outdated local laws with impunity.

The feds need to step in and prove that they can't.


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Again, it was changed in 1985 by the US Supreme Court. Deadly force against any American citizen, anywhere in the country, is not authorized over mere petty theft. If the police can't shoot you in the back, neither can the shopkeeper.... or the john.

The fact that Texas kept it on the books is no more convincing than if they kept runaway slave laws on the books.



I'm not familiar enough with US law to unravel this - but if you're saying that the US supreme court has ruled this kind of act unlawful, then I'm sure that the is a case for some kind of appeal or retrial?




_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:29:11 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

There is nothing to unravel. I'm not saying this, the US Supreme Court made it definitive in the 2 rulings I cited.

What I'm saying is that there is a group of regressive politicians and supporters who want to pretend that the federal government has no power over equal rights, and that states can revert to outdated local laws with impunity.

The feds need to step in and prove that they can't.




A thief was killed by the victim.

Does anyone want to bet that if it had been a woman killing a man who stole $150 it wouldn't have even gone to trial?

In fact, I'll say that the local media would have made her out to be some kind of hero.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:32:25 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		~fr~

It strikes me as poor form to shoot an alleged thief without a clear warning.

It also strikes me as poor judgment to accept money for an illegal service one didn't provide.

How people can twist this into the notion that she was somehow denied the option of saying "No" to sex baffles me, as that option had clearly been chosen and the choice accepted, as evidenced by the fact that he demanded his money back, rather than using the same gun to extract the service he felt she had agreed to provide.

Does anyone have any information as to what service was agreed on?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 5:46:18 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		The jails have plenty of women in there for using deadly force against men, what in the world are you talking about?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

There is nothing to unravel. I'm not saying this, the US Supreme Court made it definitive in the 2 rulings I cited.

What I'm saying is that there is a group of regressive politicians and supporters who want to pretend that the federal government has no power over equal rights, and that states can revert to outdated local laws with impunity.

The feds need to step in and prove that they can't.




A thief was killed by the victim.

Does anyone want to bet that if it had been a woman killing a man who stole $150 it wouldn't have even gone to trial?

In fact, I'll say that the local media would have made her out to be some kind of hero.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 6:12:19 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The jails have plenty of women in there for using deadly force against men, what in the world are you talking about?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

There is nothing to unravel. I'm not saying this, the US Supreme Court made it definitive in the 2 rulings I cited.

What I'm saying is that there is a group of regressive politicians and supporters who want to pretend that the federal government has no power over equal rights, and that states can revert to outdated local laws with impunity.

The feds need to step in and prove that they can't.




A thief was killed by the victim.

Does anyone want to bet that if it had been a woman killing a man who stole $150 it wouldn't have even gone to trial?

In fact, I'll say that the local media would have made her out to be some kind of hero.



I'm going to hop onto the side of someone who was banned for trolling.

If a woman steals from a man and he uses deadly force, he will be subjected to more scrutiny than a woman who uses deadly force against a man.

There is also the SPECULATION (I admit this) that she had multiple victims.

Most pro criminals have multiple victims (not assuming she was but she WAS advertising OK).

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 6:19:07 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

~fr~

It strikes me as poor form to shoot an alleged thief without a clear warning.

It also strikes me as poor judgment to accept money for an illegal service one didn't provide.

How people can twist this into the notion that she was somehow denied the option of saying "No" to sex baffles me, as that option had clearly been chosen and the choice accepted, as evidenced by the fact that he demanded his money back, rather than using the same gun to extract the service he felt she had agreed to provide.

Does anyone have any information as to what service was agreed on?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Who says he didn't warn her?

Bottom line. Thief gets shot.

The only reason it even made the news was it was a man doing the shooting and the prostitution line.

As far as I'm concerned, prostitution should be as illegal as mowing someone's yard for a fee.

theft is theft

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 6:32:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What did she steal?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 6:39:16 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What did she steal?

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Money

. "But instead, Frago walked around his apartment and after about 20 minutes left, saying she had to give the money to her driver, he said"

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/7/2013 6:43:52 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and ki... - 6/7/2013 6:40:17 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		I'm all for dropping criminals dead in their tracks and all but this, at least on its face seems over the top.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 40
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