RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (Full Version)

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ThundersCry54 -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 7:18:18 PM)

yuuupppp...




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:10:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

What can I say? Marriage is marriage. It's a big deal. It's a life commitment. The court does what it can to effect justice when people realize they fucked up. This is one of those situations where people should take personal responsibility instead of claiming the system screwed them.

Yup. And where people should know they did all they could to make things work and move forward from there.

My comment had nothing to do with what you speak of. I was expressing in response to Jeff that the courts look at income, not gender. Do you have personal experience with that?




Baroana -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:14:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

What can I say? Marriage is marriage. It's a big deal. It's a life commitment. The court does what it can to effect justice when people realize they fucked up. This is one of those situations where people should take personal responsibility instead of claiming the system screwed them.

Yup. And where people should know they did all they could to make things work and move forward from there.

My comment had nothing to do with what you speak of. I was expressing in response to Jeff that the courts look at income, not gender. Do you have personal experience with that?



Only in the sense that I have practiced family law in California and New Jersey.

Edit:
It's the "I got screwed by the court" comments that make me react. As if judges wake up in the morning and say, "gee... how can I royally screw these people???"




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:20:22 PM)

For what it's worth, I don't blame the court. I felt I got a bad deal but I don't spend energy on blame. In the future I won't be the sole income. Lesson learned.




Baroana -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:23:53 PM)

In the future, plan ahead for the possibility of divorce, or accept the consequences. It's as simple as that. I didn't invent this weird thing called marriage.




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:25:47 PM)

If only life were that black and white.

And no ones blaming you.




Baroana -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:30:02 PM)

I'm betting the ink on your alimony checks is black and white.

ok.... probably just black




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:35:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

I'm betting the ink on your alimony checks is black and white.

Wow. What's your point in that comment? What does that have to do with anything? Marriage isn't black and white. Nor is the divorce process. Your only experience is in your employment. So I'm guessing you don't personally understand the emotions involved in deciding to marry, and the excruciating emotions involved with realizing the need to divorce. Thanks for your contribution though.

And I don't pay support anymore. He was bought off.




Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:44:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

...In the future I won't be the sole income. Lesson learned.

Even that plan won't protect you. It doesn't take into account that circumstances can change during the course of marriage. Two women I represented (in California divorces) were married for 20 plus years, both the wives and the husbands worked, but in both cases the husbands stopped working after many years. One was injured; the other stopped working after he became a drunk. Both men then lived off their wives and acquired younger girlfriends, and in both divorces the wives had to pay support.

Marriage is an absolute crap shoot, with tough odds and questionable rewards. But I think when people get it right, it's an amazing thing. Just know your risks.




Baroana -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:46:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

I'm betting the ink on your alimony checks is black and white.

Wow. What's your point in that comment? What does that have to do with anything? Marriage isn't black and white. Nor is the divorce process. Your only experience is in your employment. So I'm guessing you don't personally understand the emotions involved in deciding to marry, and the excruciating emotions involved with realizing the need to divorce. Thanks for your contribution though.

And I don't pay support anymore. He was bought off.



Just like everyone else, I've grown up highly exposed to a whole lot of marriages and divorces. It ain't new stuff, which is why I can't believe people naively enter into the institution as though they're Adam and Eve. No, I have never made the decision to marry, but I have made the decision several times not to marry.

My comments are designed to counter the sentiment behind various statements on this thread that deny accountability for one's own choices in life and instead try to scapegoat the legal system.

The worst allegation by far on here is that the legal landscape for marriage has become hostile towards men. That's just plain fucking ignorant.




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:46:32 PM)

I totally agree with your last comment, Spirited. So much so that I'd do it again, only much more informed.




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:49:20 PM)

Baroana I agree with you. I don't agree that the system is gender biased at all. I myself married way too young. Too young to know better. But it was my path and I have no regrets. I'm wiser for it now (and poorer lol).




MsLadySue -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 8:51:06 PM)

I might have considered it had I not already paid for 3 divorces in 30 years. Having spent the last 11 years alone, I wouldn't change the way I live for anyone. It took me a very long time to realize I am not "live together/marriage" material.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:02:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
The legal landscape is hostile not so much to men, but to people who work. In marriages with a working woman/non-working man, she is just as SOL as a man would be (in California). Since I work I would be very reluctant to marry. Even if your spouse is working at the outset of marriage, if he/she stops voluntarily or by circumstance, the working partner is screwed.

Uh huh. How shall I put this delicately? That does not match my experience in California. It sure as hell doesn't match the just recent acquaintance's experience in TX. Did you know that a man is automatically a child abuser if the woman says so? OK, perhaps not in a criminal sense... but enough to have zero custody and be required to make payments and have no visitation rights simply on her accusation. No investigation was ever done. What's there to investigate? We all know that women only lie about abuse 2% of the time, right? Oh, and when it came out that she had lied nobody felt any need to ... you know... throw her in jail. In point of fact nobody even felt the need to reverse the judgement based on the claim of child abuse. So I'm afraid you're going to need to work prety hard to sell me on legal equality in family law.

The good news is that Canada is so much more sane about so much family law than the US that I think there's a pretty good chance that getting married in Canada is not a fool's move. The even better news is that I have Carol and I really hope it stays that way.


I realize you only have your own and some "acquaintance's" experience to go by, so I was going to let it go until you started going on and on about things you quite obviously don't seem to really grasp. Sorry, but I will be as "delicate" as you.

Your acquaintance? I'm sure you haven't read all the paper work on his case, but I'm sure he is spitting mad and tells everyone "exactly" what happened. Only problem is that it likely didn't happen that way. Twenty years specifically in family law, I saw a lot more divorces than you and your acquaintance, so I actually know what the laws say, how to read them, interpret them and apply them.

So while I've no doubt you believe you got "ripped off," and "raked over the coals" in your divorce, there is no doubt much that you don't understand about how the law was applied. As for your acquaintance, I've no doubt you know his side of the story only, so you really can't even speak about it. I will say though, that courts don't go around reversing previous rulings without an application being made to the court.

Spiritedsub is right for CA and for basically every state in the US. Although CA has that pesky community property law. Fucks you guys over every time.

So there is one very simple solution to those of us who are older and have acquired "stuff." It's called a prenuptial agreement. Protects all those assets you are worried about, spousal support, etc. Of course, if you have children, that won't mean squat about child support, even if you include it, but hey, it offers this protection all you dreadfully wealthy people are worried about. In all seriousness, in this day and age anyone who has acquired assets prior to marriage, or is likely going to acquire significantly more assets without the assistance of their spouse, should have a pre-nup. It's common sense. Nothing in "iron clad," but if drawn up properly, they are as close as you can get.




Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:11:49 PM)

Will only warn that in California, prenups will protect your assets but are virtually useless with regard to spousal support. And entirely useless regarding child support, as you said.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:12:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

California is a no fault state. Any claim would not have mattered. There's a calculation based on income and number of years marred. That's it. I lost my ass.


There is really no point in stating the obvious, NV. I found that people who feel that way could have the details spelled out right in front of them, and they will still never get it, because they simply don't want to.




NuevaVida -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:15:59 PM)

Well since he told me I should have claimed abuse and I did, and it obviously had no bearing at all, I did want to point it out. My divorce took me three years and cost $25,000 in legal fees, thanks to my ex's shenanigans. Nothing is so simple as black and white.





LafayetteLady -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:19:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Edit:
It's the "I got screwed by the court" comments that make me react. As if judges wake up in the morning and say, "gee... how can I royally screw these people???"


OMG! That's exactly it! And if you talk to them and get details, you start to see the whole picture and they are just angry people who didn't understand the law. Relatively intelligent people who, since the dawn of the internet search out a statute, RPC, court rule, etc. but only read the part that describes what they were looking for, none of the extra stuff that makes it apply!

Sorry, I have someone right now just like that who is making me absofuckinglutely nuts.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:22:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

I'm betting the ink on your alimony checks is black and white.

Wow. What's your point in that comment? What does that have to do with anything? Marriage isn't black and white. Nor is the divorce process. Your only experience is in your employment. So I'm guessing you don't personally understand the emotions involved in deciding to marry, and the excruciating emotions involved with realizing the need to divorce. Thanks for your contribution though.

And I don't pay support anymore. He was bought off.


My (previous) job is where my "experience" comes in, and I do personally understand everything that goes into it very well. Especially the divorce process. Getting people past that is sometimes nerve wracking.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? (6/9/2013 9:25:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Will only warn that in California, prenups will protect your assets but are virtually useless with regard to spousal support. And entirely useless regarding child support, as you said.


It's all in how they are written. Anywhere you live. Except for child support.

ETA: CA screws people with that whole community property thing. Income and numbers don't matter. No fault so cause doesn't matter. 50/50. There are times that is very fair, and times it is very unfair.




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