RE: NSA leaker comes forward (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 10:44:05 PM)

Another thought... could this be used to manipulate the stock market? Affect prices? Capitalize on insider information?



kdsub -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 10:45:26 PM)

You must remember this was done with the full approval of Congress for two different Presidents... Those elected and entrusted to protect our rights....Members of both parties were fully aware and continually kept informed of the information gathered and how it was used. This was also approved by the judiciary of the United States.

The information gathering was not the result of a rogue section of government or political party. It was a well planned effective information gathering technique that protected the citizens of the US without violating their rights. It was approved by Congresses controlled by both political parties.

This was and is a valid lawful important tool that has been destroyed by this mans unthinking actions and perhaps misplaced judgment as well as a betrayal of his oaths....in my opinion.

Butch



JeffBC -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 11:15:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You must remember this was done with the full approval of Congress for two different Presidents... Those elected and entrusted to protect our rights....Members of both parties were fully aware and continually kept informed of the information gathered and how it was used. This was also approved by the judiciary of the United States.

I remember that quite clearly Butch.

quote:

The information gathering was not the result of a rogue section of government or political party.

I don't follow your reasoning. Why can't the entire US government be rogue? Surely you know enough of history to know that these things happen... fairly regularly actually. That's why freedom needs to be defended.

quote:

This was and is a valid lawful important tool that has been destroyed by this mans unthinking actions and perhaps misplaced judgment as well as a betrayal of his oaths....in my opinion.

Oh, I have no doubt that it is useful and important. The question is towards what goals? And do you really trust ANYONE with the sort of power we are discussing here... absolute and total power. I'm just not cool with that. Think about the ability of the government to move on ideas even as they are forming in our society if the powers that be deem those ideas contrary to their goals. Think about how easy it'd be to pretty much do anything... win an election... coerce someone... you name it.



subrob1967 -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 11:27:19 PM)

Am I the only one here deeply disturbed that this guy felt he had to run from the land of the free and the home of the brave to Red fucking China to maintain his freedom of speech?



tazzygirl -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 11:34:21 PM)

He is seeking asylum with Iceland.



Rule -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/9/2013 11:40:24 PM)

FR

There is nowhere for him to run to.



DaddySatyr -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 12:19:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Am I the only one here deeply disturbed that this guy felt he had to run from the land of the free and the home of the brave to Red fucking China to maintain his freedom of speech?



Not Really. It reminds me of the old joke from the 80s before the iron curtain came down (and sped up the threat of sociallism, around the world).



An American and a Russian are arguing, each backing their native land.

After some time, the American finally says:

"Look, in America, I have freedom of speech. I can go down to Washington, D.C., march into the White House, walk into the Oval Office and bang on the desk and say: 'President Reagan, I don't like the way you're running this country!' "

The Russian is unphased and says:

"I can do this same thing. I can go to Moscow ... to the Kremlin and walk into Brezhnev's office and say: 'Mr. Prime Minister, I don't like the way President Reagan is running his country!' "

Trust me, the Chinese LOVE having an American dissident there, pegging rocks at the US.



Peace and Comfort,



Michael



TheHeretic -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 6:31:44 AM)

That's lovely, Butch. Care to put the confidence your post expressed in our government next to the stories about what's been going on over at the IRS?



Hillwilliam -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 9:09:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59



Could you be more specific?


As well,how is this news.....as in new news?

Dubya's so-called "Patriot act" and Obama's expansion of the same.



vincentML -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 11:51:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Am I the only one here deeply disturbed that this guy felt he had to run from the land of the free and the home of the brave to Red fucking China to maintain his freedom of speech?

Be careful who you enshrine as a hero. This guy who puts pillows at the bottom of his hotel door and covers his head with a hood when he is on a computer, fears the Triad will get him, and is according to recent reports already on the run from the hotel room where he registered in his own name.

Your 'hero' may turn out to be a nutter. A modern day true-believing Lee Harvey Oswald without a gun.



vincentML -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 12:00:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You must remember this was done with the full approval of Congress for two different Presidents... Those elected and entrusted to protect our rights....Members of both parties were fully aware and continually kept informed of the information gathered and how it was used. This was also approved by the judiciary of the United States.

The information gathering was not the result of a rogue section of government or political party. It was a well planned effective information gathering technique that protected the citizens of the US without violating their rights. It was approved by Congresses controlled by both political parties.

This was and is a valid lawful important tool that has been destroyed by this mans unthinking actions and perhaps misplaced judgment as well as a betrayal of his oaths....in my opinion.

Butch

I'm with you on this one, Butch. This guy Snowden declared the end of Terror all on his own. So, he wants the evil gummit to shut down the evil spy program. Confident is he that we are safe from Islamist attacks? Or just a self-absorbed paranoid loner?

Still waiting for someone to show any personal damage they suffered from any of these programs. The Supreme Court rejected review of the ALCU suit to stop this 'invasion of privacy' because the appellants could not show they were harmed in anyway. The Court held you cannot sue to stop some future imagined injury. No injury, no standing.



kdsub -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 12:09:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That's lovely, Butch. Care to put the confidence your post expressed in our government next to the stories about what's been going on over at the IRS?



I have yet to form an opinion...From what I can gather there are at least three different government entities investigating the allegations. Why not wait for the reports to come in before accusing anyone or group? I have already stated in another thread that I believe a special prosecutor should be assigned if substantiated evidence comes forth from the on going investigations that laws were broken.

Until then I will wisely I think withhold judgment.

And sentiments above also apply to the NSA accusations. Right now it seems on the up and up but time will tell.. And until wrong doing is proven I will not jump on the "Oh my poor violated privacy" bandwagon.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 12:14:08 PM)

quote:

I'm with you on this one, Butch


Pardon me Vince...I'll have to get back with you later.... I am now in route to the emergency room most likely having a heart attack after your above revelation!!...[:D]

Butch



kdsub -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 12:22:05 PM)

quote:

Why can't the entire US government be rogue


Jeff I'm afraid our views of the government of the United States are so far apart as to make it impossible for us to carry on a reasonable conversation about this issue.

As I've said before I can only hope I am right and you are wrong and perhaps we should leave it at that.

Butch



defiantbadgirl -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 1:19:16 PM)

Is the spying constitutional? The United States is supposed to be a government for the people by the people (although IMO it's a government for the corporations by the corporations). That means the politicians and president are supposed to be working for us (the American people). We're the boss. This guy leaked the information to the American people (the boss), not an enemy country. How is this different from employees reporting things they suspect or feel are wrong to their boss?



vincentML -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 3:06:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I'm with you on this one, Butch


Pardon me Vince...I'll have to get back with you later.... I am now in route to the emergency room most likely having a heart attack after your above revelation!!...[:D]

Butch

[:D]



Owner59 -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 3:13:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thought... could this be used to manipulate the stock market? Affect prices? Capitalize on insider information?


Not this company`s stock...


"Edward Snowden isn’t Booz Allen Hamilton’s first leak problem

Last year, the Air Force considered blacklisting the company’s office in San Antonio over a leak. The incident involved a former Air Force officer hired by Booz Allen, who on his first day of work brought with him “sensitive,” non-public information regarding an upcoming Air Force contract.

Booz Allen employees accepted the information, which gave the company a “competitive advantage,” and used it in internal business presentations.


After the Air Force proposed debarment for Booz Allen’s San Antonio office, the company conducted a broad investigation and agreed to put in place new ethics rules, as the Project on Government Oversight reported last year. It also paid the Air Force $65,000.

For Booz Allen, which derives 99 percent of its revenue from U.S. government agencies, the incident was a threat to its business, affecting “the ability of our San Antonio office to attain new government” contracts, as the company said in a filing last month with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

In the filing, the company acknowledged that protecting government secrets is key to the future of its business, which is dependent on U.S. intelligence agencies for about 23 percent of its revenue.

The “growth of our business” depends primarily “on our ability to be awarded work under U.S. government contracts,” the company said in its SEC filing. That relationship, it explained, could be damaged through “the mishandling or the perception of mishandling of sensitive information.”

Now, that scenario appears to be playing out. The company has been in the spotlight over its connection to leaks involving the National Security Agency that have dominated headlines around the world. Snowden, a Booz Allen employee working at the NSA, identified himself over the weekend as the source of the leaks to The Guardian and The Washington Post.

On Monday, Booz Allen stock fell more than 2.5 percent.


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-booz-allen-hamilton-leak-problem-92522.html#ixzz2VqpHGvQi



vincentML -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 3:14:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Is the spying constitutional? The United States is supposed to be a government for the people by the people (although IMO it's a government for the corporations by the corporations). That means the politicians and president are supposed to be working for us (the American people). We're the boss. This guy leaked the information to the American people (the boss), not an enemy country. How is this different from employees reporting things they suspect or feel are wrong to their boss?

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the President and his agencies to engage in espionage for the national defense. The President took an oath to defend the Constitution. He would be derelict in his duties if he did not. Your question reveals a jaw-dropping misunderstanding of the world in which we live.

This nutter Snowden broke his security clearance. He betrayed the nation. He should be tried in a Federal court. He knows he is a traitor. That's why he has gone to ground.

And you cannot speak on behalf of the "American people."



dcnovice -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 3:27:18 PM)

FR

I'm still making up my mind about Snowden, so the T-word gives me pause.

The Constitution is remarkably specific about what constitutes treason in the United States:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

He hasn't levied war against us, and I'm not sure what "Aid and Comfort" he's given to our enemies (and who they are at this point).

I also wonder what, if any, role intention should play in all this. It sounds as if he sincerely believed he was doing the right thing.



Yachtie -> RE: NSA leaker comes forward (6/10/2013 3:31:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

He knows he is a traitor. That's why he has gone to ground.


You know this? How? Clairvoyance? You psychic Vince?


There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the President and his agencies to engage in espionage for the national defense.


Against the American people? Really? [8|]



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