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RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 11:25:23 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And you honestly believe that everyone on the right believes everything in the right platform and everyone on the left believes everything in the left?


And you honestly believe that using the dumbest possible strawman in order to defend the boi hating party isn't a sad and pathetic thing to do?


Not everyone on one side believes everything written in their parties platform. That's not a strawman, that's a fact.




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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 11:45:49 AM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And you honestly believe that everyone on the right believes everything in the right platform and everyone on the left believes everything in the left?


And you honestly believe that using the dumbest possible strawman in order to defend the boi hating party isn't a sad and pathetic thing to do?


Not everyone on one side believes everything written in their parties platform. That's not a strawman, that's a fact.

The point you continue to avoid and strawman is that no matter what individual Republican people may believe the Republicans getting elected, and therefore having an effect on others, are almost all exactly as people portray them and that you whine about.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 12:28:51 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The point you continue to avoid and strawman is that no matter what individual Republican people may believe the Republicans getting elected, and therefore having an effect on others, are almost all exactly as people portray them...

True enough. But the point too often neglected is precisely the difference to which you refer, namely that the Republican Party is one thing and Republicans as people are another (sadly enough). Attacking the Party is one thing, smearing Republicans as a class is something else. And that cuts both ways, in case the other side needs to be reminded.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/13/2013 12:32:13 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 2:12:59 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

And you honestly believe that everyone on the right believes everything in the right platform and everyone on the left believes everything in the left?




_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 2:15:14 PM   
Fightdirecto


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Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 2:24:23 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Not everyone on one side believes everything written in their parties platform. That's not a strawman, that's a fact.

Well, duh.

But sometimes they vote as if they do:

H.R. 3, the “No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act” that passed the House May 4 is not likely to become the law of the land. But the fact that it passed the House with unanimous Republican support means the pro-life members of the party, which includes all the House leadership, can tout their attachment to social issues, even after the supposedly fiscal-first tea party movement helped take over the GOP last year.

* * *

Voting against such a measure, then, would seem like a no-brainer. Except it wasn’t. None of the about a dozen House GOP members the the Republican Majority For Choice PAC considers allies voted against H.R. 3. In fact, all of them voted yes.

“We opposed the bill, we considered it an anti-choice, big government intrusion and politically we think it’s a bad move for the Republicans to keep focusing on this,” K.R. Ferguson, executive director of the PAC told TPM.

Emphasis mine.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/after-hr-3-are-there-any-pro-choice-republicans-left-in-the-house.php



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/13/2013 8:24:30 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Not everyone on one side believes everything written in their parties platform.


obviously. The only person debating against you on that is made of straw.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 1:09:55 PM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		I have to say - at the risks of flamethrowers or something (lol)....

My personal belief is not in favor of abortion after 20 weeks. This stems from several things, beginning with the fact that I believe the baby is a separate person and so it isn't just my body. Now in the cases of rape and incest, I think the man who donated that sperm should never be allowed in the same zip code as the mother OR baby...BUT in other cases....when two people have consensual sex and a baby happens....then yes, the father IS a part of it, and what he thinks SHOULD matter.

Also, because I AM adopted, I am always surprised that it never seems to occur to people who think a woman shouldn't have to raise a child created out of such trauma....that adoption is an option. Yes, that does mean she is in for 9 months of pregnancy and labor and childbirth. And having had 2 kids I can testify that that is not the most convenient and pleasant thing in the world.

But I am very glad that my own birthmother was willing to suffer through it. I like being here.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 1:51:56 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

I have to say - at the risks of flamethrowers or something (lol)....

My personal belief is not in favor of abortion after 20 weeks. This stems from several things, beginning with the fact that I believe the baby is a separate person and so it isn't just my body. Now in the cases of rape and incest, I think the man who donated that sperm should never be allowed in the same zip code as the mother OR baby...BUT in other cases....when two people have consensual sex and a baby happens....then yes, the father IS a part of it, and what he thinks SHOULD matter.

Also, because I AM adopted, I am always surprised that it never seems to occur to people who think a woman shouldn't have to raise a child created out of such trauma....that adoption is an option. Yes, that does mean she is in for 9 months of pregnancy and labor and childbirth. And having had 2 kids I can testify that that is not the most convenient and pleasant thing in the world.

But I am very glad that my own birthmother was willing to suffer through it. I like being here.

As long as it remains your decision I have no problem. It is when people who hold your beliefs try to impose them on others that I disagree.

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 2:55:33 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[ED for bungled last sentence]


Right... so on one hand, I'm with you, there really does seem to be a concerted attack on the rights of women.

But I think it's a strategic mistake to characterise it as a "war on women".

As has been pointed out, there are a fair number of vocal women opponents to the right to choose. So all the madwags have to do is produce a couple of women who will say "it isn't a war on me" and the general statement "war on women" is discredited. Secondly, how does the mantra "war on women" engage men? They need to be engaged because they're largely still in control.

This is a war on common sense, it's a war on freedom, it's a war against justice, it's a war on liberty.

And we should be using words like "fundamentalism" and "theocracy" to help people wake up...





< Message edited by crazyml -- 6/14/2013 2:56:41 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 5:09:09 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Not everyone on one side believes everything written in their parties platform. That's not a strawman, that's a fact.

Well, duh.

But sometimes they vote as if they do:

H.R. 3, the “No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act” that passed the House May 4 is not likely to become the law of the land. But the fact that it passed the House with unanimous Republican support means the pro-life members of the party, which includes all the House leadership, can tout their attachment to social issues, even after the supposedly fiscal-first tea party movement helped take over the GOP last year.

* * *

Voting against such a measure, then, would seem like a no-brainer. Except it wasn’t. None of the about a dozen House GOP members the the Republican Majority For Choice PAC considers allies voted against H.R. 3. In fact, all of them voted yes.

“We opposed the bill, we considered it an anti-choice, big government intrusion and politically we think it’s a bad move for the Republicans to keep focusing on this,” K.R. Ferguson, executive director of the PAC told TPM.

Emphasis mine.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/after-hr-3-are-there-any-pro-choice-republicans-left-in-the-house.php





Where did I ever imply I was only talking about the republicans in the house?

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 5:14:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Also, because I AM adopted, I am always surprised that it never seems to occur to people who think a woman shouldn't have to raise a child created out of such trauma....that adoption is an option. Yes, that does mean she is in for 9 months of pregnancy and labor and childbirth. And having had 2 kids I can testify that that is not the most convenient and pleasant thing in the world.


Of course that has occurred to me. And some women have no problem giving up a child for adoption (dont read that as me saying its easy... it never is "easy").

But a crime has been committed against these women, especially in keeping with the OP.

I am all for making abortions after 20 weeks extremely difficult to obtain. I have no issue with that sentiment. And, hopefully, we share the same view on women whose lives are in danger... it should be their decision and theirs alone.

When it comes to incest.... I have no issue with someone wanting an abortion. The risk of birth defects increases because of the shared gene pool. And the thought of forcing someone to give birth to their "brother" or their "uncle" or their "second cousin" is just beyond me.

Rape. Sketchy area. Psychologically, some women can handle that. Some cannot. So we have bills saying a woman who is the victim of rape cannot have an abortion after 20 weeks. Lets assume they also arent going for the pills in the rape kit that prevents fertilization.

Depending on the attack, and the trauma (mental) caused by that attack, I can see instances of women not knowing, or refusing to admit the event happened and not knowing, they are pregnant. Couple it with DV and the risks of that increases.

Rape is such a grey area that I really, medically, cannot see forcing someone to continue a pregnancy. But then we run the risk of women claiming to be raped just to get an abortion. However, as kalik pointed out, those abortions are rare as it is after the 20 week period the legislatures are pointing at.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4467194

Now why would they go after a benchmark like 20 weeks, when abortions are already rare, to make a pill to prevent those rare occurances from happening at all? Its my belief they hope to use this as a back door later into slowly chipping away at the weeks in which a woman can obtain one as evidenced by the comments that a fetus can "feel" around 8 weeks.

To me, this is an attempt to make abortions illegal in an insidious way. Couple that with the insistance that women get wanded for an internal ultrasound... for what? So the religious folks can feel all happy and smug that they may have prevented one of the women in Ohio who were kidnapped and raped from obtaining an abortion? Does anything even believe those women were consenting participants?

We arent just speaking about a woman who has sex one night and wakes up with a hang over and reports her actions as rape.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 7:34:50 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

My personal belief is not in favor of abortion after 20 weeks. This stems from several things, beginning with the fact that I believe the baby is a separate person and so it isn't just my body.

Why 20 weeks?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/14/2013 7:38:44 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Where did I ever imply I was only talking about the republicans in the house?

Oh, dear God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxJlcVYBvOY

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:15:20 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Well, the individual states political parties seem hell bent on eliminating reproductive rights of women, even more so than the national party. States like Arkansas, Mississippi and North Dakota have simply raised the bar on making it a passion of men to control women's reproductive rights. There is all of ONE women's clinic in Mississippi offering birth control, North Dakota has I believe ONE remaining, and Arkansas is next!
As long as the individual states have morons serving in their legislatures, we can expect the movement to exist in the National party as well. Have to love the ultra conservatives, they eat their own candidates, and in time, they may not be electable beyond the house.

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The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:22:35 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I saw three of the weirdest right wingers have reached out to glann beck to gain support for stopping the immigration bill
Steve King, Louie Gohmert and the always cray cray Michele Bachmann appealing to glenn and his fans
I had to laugh..

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
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RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:24:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Beck with the paralyzed vocal cords?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:26:10 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		LMAO we could only hope...

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:28:00 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Between Ghomert, King and Bachman it's hard to decide which is the larger moron!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: This week in the republican war on women - 6/15/2013 5:34:58 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And you honestly believe that everyone on the right believes everything in the right platform and everyone on the left believes everything in the left?


And you honestly believe that using the dumbest possible strawman in order to defend the boi hating party isn't a sad and pathetic thing to do?



Sad and pathetic is you referring to it as the boi hating party. But I totally understand. The quickest way to get someone on your side is to paint the other side as evil and convince people that everyone on the other side hates them and is out to get them. You scream about the bigots on the right and ignore the ones on the left. And if you find someone who's only concern is gay rights, you might actually be successful, but not this time.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 60
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