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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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interesting, I was not aware we knew where the boundaries of the universe were, how did you conclude that? You can assure us with absolute certainty that no part is contracting anywhere within its boundaries.

Only repeating what I understand from reading and video discussions.

I cannot assure you anything with absolute certainty.

The boundaries to the universe are expanding with it as more space time is created. The furthest galaxies are already beyond detection by our instruments. A shift in the red end of their visible spectra suggest the furthest galaxies we can record are moving away from us at accelerating speeds. Eventually, in a trillion years or so no other galaxies will be 'visible' to whoever might be on earth if earth is still there somewhere. So, the local galaxy will be alone. Apparently all local galaxies will be alone. I am not making this stuff up. Just reporting it.

so we do not know the extents of the universe.

reporting it in error from the way it looks and stating that all the universe is expanding is purely an error. secondly all the information you receive from distant galaxies are millions of years old.

alone? I cant draw that same conclusion from the data we have so far.

We know the extent of the 'visible' universe.

Yes, millions of years old. You might call it astro-archeology.

Why can't you draw that same conclusion?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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As a result of a Congressionally Directed Activity, the Central Intelligence Agency conducted an evaluation of a 24-year, government-sponsored program to investigate ESP and its potential use within the Intelligence Community.

Sooo ?????

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the idea that "space" is expanding is a bit hard to believe. now planets gaiing greater distance between each other in a given space makes more sense.

there is no way to determine if "space" is expanding unless the boundaries of "space" are known.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Junk science

Oh no! You found someone who disagrees? Well damn, that settles that. Everybody move along now, nothing to see here.

K.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
If it is finite and we cannot see the edge now then we will never see the edge because it is expanding faster and further than our instruments will ever be able to see.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml
Meh, I think you'll find that there are quite a few christian antheists.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You either subscribe to the christian ethos, or you deny it.
It really is as black and white as that.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

on what "moral" grounds does an atheist stand?

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You either subscribe to the christian ethos, or you deny it.
It really is as black and white as that.

Which Christian ethos there are at least 30,000 to choose from?

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Christian in deeds and motives maybe.
But by definition, if they are atheists, then they are not 'christian' because they do not believe in christ.
That's one of the main things that define a 'christian' - a belief in the almighty, son of god etc.
If you believe in those things, then you aren't an atheist.
The two are mutually exclusive terminologies.

I take your point, the terminology does feel a little odd.

But there's an identifiable group of people, holding a set of shared beliefs that describe themselves as christian atheists.

I think that their argument is that you do not have to believe in god to believe in the teachings of the chap everyone refers to as Christ.

They are essentially non god believing followers of the teachings of Jeaus.

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1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

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Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

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19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

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28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You either subscribe to the christian ethos, or you deny it.
It really is as black and white as that.

Which Christian ethos there are at least 30,000 to choose from?

Think of where that term/word comes from. 

Merriam Webster -
Function: noun
Etymology:Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date:1526

1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ 
b (1) : DISCIPLE  
(2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 
(3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

So.... If you follow the teaching of JC, you are a christian and cannot be an atheist by definition.
If you deny the existence of 'the' god and JC, then you aren't a christian. But you could be something else, not necessarily an atheist.

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in order to say the whole universe is expanding you at a minimum need to know the boundaries of it.

If it goes beyond your ability to review (which you admitted) then your statement is patently false

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ORIGINAL: Merriam Webster
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ 

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
So.... If you follow the teaching of JC, you are a christian and cannot be an atheist by definition.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the idea that "space" is expanding is a bit hard to believe. now planets gaiing greater distance between each other in a given space makes more sense.

there is no way to determine if "space" is expanding unless the boundaries of "space" are known.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne


but JC is the personification and embodiment of God, so now what?

I'm sure those squirrely godless fuckers will have a good explanation.

For me, I kind of understanding what the term "Christian Atheist" means, but since I'm not signed up I can't possibly say what sort of lawyer's trick those tricksters might pull to get around the Son of God hoo-haa.

So.... which bit of "christian" don't you understand??
That's where the term 'christian' came from! 

So you can't be a christian atheist.
You either subscribe to the christian ethos, or you deny it.
It really is as black and white as that.

If you follow the teachings of christ, then you cannot be an atheist - at least by definition of what an atheist is.
But that doesn't necessarily preclude that you also shun the idea of being a good and kind person etc.


ETA: The term 'christian atheist' is an oxymoron.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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One thing that's always puzzled me about the notion of an expanding universe is what space is it expanding into?

It would depend on if the universe was infinite or finite.. If infinite then there is no edge or boundary because you could not expand infinity. If it is finite and we cannot see the edge now then we will never see the edge because it is expanding faster and further than our instruments will ever be able to see.

So all we will ever have is theory.

Butch